Re: Accessible voice and text chat

Tyler Wood


I have to correct you on quite a few points.

In your anti google rant, you forgot one key fact about the headphone jack. removed it first.

Apple may be accessible, but you talk about a walled garden? Apple is it. Microsoft is getting with the linux and open source program over here so I'm not sure what world you are living in. Microsoft isn't disabling *any* file explorer whatsoever and you can use whichever you so choose. Not so in apple land. Google is making steady improvements in accessibility, too, while we're on the subject. Google has options for casting to a tv that don't cost an arm and a leg, only around $35. Talk about computers not allowing you to upgrade components? Again, apple started that with their macbook air series and other pc ultrabooks followed suit because of it. I miss the days when macbook batteries were replaceable and didn't cost 2-300 dollars to replace because the ram had to be resoldered. While we're on the subject of batteries, what company was it that throttled phones and did not tell consumers that they were doing so? It wasn't google and it wasn't Microsoft. It was only after the good ol consumers investigated with benchmark results that apple admitted to throttling phones and not saying a word, thus offering $29 battery replacements *after* this was all figured out.

On 25-Jul-2018 5:50 AM, Elshara Silverheart wrote:
Here's my thoughts on accessibility in general.
I generally dislike all cloud services. Apple is the only company I
trust for cloud service data because you know what you're getting. And
it isn't tied in with data selling to Google, Microsoft and artificial
Sure there's Siri. But Apple is so permissions based in the first
place, nobody can quite imitate how apple has gotten away with
remaining there. Accessibility is an integral part of all Apple
products. You can take your device into Apple Care for a price tag,
but get it fixed never the less. Apple is moving to stronger devices
but they are taking care of their existing customers first.
I can't say that about Microsoft. I had to downgrade from Windows 10
back to Windows 7 because of Microsoft's micromanagement platform they
are working on. I used to be an insider, and now I wish I never
touched anything Microsoft cloud.
Microsoft self hosted on the other hand, is another story. It's more
secure to me because common sense says, don't post something others
can't find. It's just that simple. It always will be.
I'm personally, sick and tired of both Google and Microsoft making
products that manage how you can personally do something on your own.
It's like when Cpanel came out for the first time on Linux. Don't host
unless you know what you're doing. When you're used to reading
documentation but have to interrupt an install to uninstall a GUI to
use the configuration you want for web hosting. My only like of Cpanel
is that it does making other tasks easier. But again, there's the
price tag.
Nobody has invested more into the piracy marketplace than Microsoft
however. This is why people have stuck with it for so long. Be you a
clean or a dirty software or media consumer, you have one thing in
common with your virtual neighbor. Ease of use. This is why ease of
use works so well. It's you who hosts it. If you're hosting a program,
you're not giving your computer manufacturer permission to degrade
your computers performance so that they can spend less on
infrastructure and more on quality products. I kid you not, take a PC
made 5 - 10 years ago and it works just as good if not better than
today's PCs. Where they didn't sodder on configuration changes you
can't alter. Thanks, Intel.
Where's the freedom to be yourself now days in today's overly
micromanaged political sespool of a world we live in, eh? You want to
feed the drama, or go on your own. I chose both paths for
accessibility reasons among other personal security concerns. Let me
tell you what I found.
At point blank range, first hand experience, Google Android and
Microsoft are in a league all of their own. Trust Google and Microsoft
to sell you something one minute, and totally reverse their decision
the next. I used to be a beta tester for Android. I even bought the
Pixel to do it. Now, not only did they remove the headphone jack. But
they also made their software open to other vendors. You know what
that did in the beta 9? Put up some constantly phantom Chrome casting
service you can't get rid of. Subsequently, my battery is shot. They
say you can uninstall remove yourself from the beta. And you just
can't. You know what that tells me? They are about as trusting of
their customer concerns as a brick wall. They tell you you can make
money with adsense, but then remove you from the program and won't
tell you after they have all your banking information, why? It's
because they don't need you anymore. I've invested thousands into the
Google infrastructure and received a slap in the face as a response.
I two, have invested a lot into the Microsoft infrastructure. I don't
need my Microsoft account suspended because I add 30 contacts thanks
to phone Sync to my Skype account automatically. I do no't need the
inability to message someone unless we are contacts either. Something
the original Skype was able to do. I don't need Microsoft forcing me
to use their services, such as File Explorer, over an alternative
because they say the API access will shut down. I don't need to be in
an abusive online web garden that isn't working for me. I
additionally, will never trust Microsoft to deliver what they promise.
They suck people in, and then they take advantage of them when they
think they aren't looking after they've been with the program awhile.
This is why I'll never trust anything cloud. Apple may be a cloud
service, but it's the original one that never had any issues of trust
like all these others companies do now.
The bottom line is, go self hosted. Go with team Talk. Go with your
own dedicated server. Spend the extra money if you have to for peace
of mind if that's what it takes. Don't try to forceably use something
someone else requires access to because they may or may not have the
right you unknowingly grant them at any point in time, to deny you
access to something you paid for. It's as simple as that.
take from it what you will.

On 7/24/18, Lino Morales <> wrote:
Yo Elany. Contact me off list at:<>

I have my own TeamTalk server if you want to hang. That goes for the rest of
you on this list cluster who are on here.

Sent from Mail<> for Windows

From: <> on behalf of Eleni Vamvakari
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 5:10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

Thank you, Tyler, both for your agreement and for your suggestions.
While I don't deliberately insult people for no reason, I am against
political correctness in general. If people wrote bad things about a
program that I liked, I would simply ignore it. I'm not its writer,
but if I were, I would ask what they didn't like about it so that we
could discuss it in a civil manner.

I will try Team Talk again. I don't mind if it's used widely in the
mainstream. I need it to contact my Greek teacher for lessons and my
best friend so that we can voice chat. If others wish to join me, of
course, they can do so, though of course, it's different from a
dedicated program like Skype, where you have friends that you can add,
etc. But maybe, some members of various Facebook groups might be
interested in meeting there! *smile*

On 24/07/2018, Tyler Wood <> wrote:
I have to agree with Eleni here.

2018 seems to be the year to be overly offended by everything. Instead
of talking about the original subject we're now suddenly talking about a
name for a company. Really, who cares. People shouldn't need their hand
held at every turn on a mailing list.

Regardless, Eleni, good luck in finding alternatives that work as nice
as skype. Team talk is nice, yes, but not many folks in the mainstream
use it. Team speak has its own set of frustrating issues - one of which
is accessing context menus with NVDA without restarting it. Discord is
slowly, oh so slowly, improving. Google hangouts is...kind of? okay, but
I forget what I didn't like about it as it has been a while, so perhaps
things have changed.

Sorry I couldn't be more help

On 24-Jul-2018 1:42 AM, Gene wrote:
I consider this to be little short of bashing, microslop, mocrosoft?
This is a public list and insulting companies may offend or bother
people who like products of a company.
If more people did this on list, the level of the list would be
degraded and it's nature would change from a helping and discussion
list to a help, discussion, and product bashing list.
If this practice spread, peoples feelings might be hurt. I don't know
who is on the list now, but in the past someone was on the list that
helped develop accessibility for Open Office and someone who works on
E-Speak was a member. If you start this sort of thing and it spreads,
it might have effects not considered by the original practitioner.
And, as you saw from comments earlier from various people, the
disparagement isn't necessarily accurate. many people presented
information about Microsoft that contradicted it.
Would you like seeing your favorite program disparaged in this way
even if the comments weren't directed toward you?
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Eleni Vamvakari <>
*Sent:* Tuesday, July 24, 2018 1:07 AM
*To:* <>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

People need to stop being offended by everything, especially comments
not directed toward them. Who cares whether someone uses a
disparaging name of a company? It's not a personal insult or attack.

In any case, I am of the opinion that, if things work well, they
should be improved, not changed entirely. I liked earlier versions of
Skype. Then came 7, which was annoying in several ways (I cannot
think of them at the moment, as I haven't used the older versions of
Skype since they discontinued them). Now, there is a completely new
interface. I have tried it remotely on my friend's computer (with his
permission, of course) but we were in a call, so I didn't get the full
effect of going through contacts, making and answering a call, etc.
In some ways, it's quicker than 7, and things are immediately present,
instead of being in a list and under menus. But some things seemed to
be missing. I just don't see the need to needlessly complicate
things, and even if this works, I am still interested in alternatives
with a simpler and more traditional interface.

On 23/07/2018, Shaun Everiss <
<>> wrote:
I don't see how it would either.

Except dolphin maybe, their brouser access is well not there only old
versions of internet explorer work with their stuff.

They say they are working on chrome but catch up they are doing,
firefox, chrome, waterfox, most of those we allready have everywhere

On 7/24/2018 8:54 AM, Lino Morales wrote:
Good point Tyler. And this goes back to the VFO brewhaha we had on
last week. I don’t see how Narrator would disrupt open source screen
readers like NVDA as his Erickness stated in that podcast. As I
always say
viva la NVDA!

Sent from Mail<> for

From: <>
< <>> on behalf of Tyler
< <>>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 4:49:46 PM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Accessible voice and text chat

A few years ago I might have agreed with you on microsoft playing

These days, as you say, Microsoft is everywhere. Seeing AI is simply
revolutionary tool on the smartphone and is not made by apple.
Similarly, narrator is quickly becoming a replacement for your
every day
screen reader. Keep in mind that the NFB went at apple pretty hard
in the day, too, so it isn't as though their bringing more
into the market was voluntary. Microsoft has pretty decent
on the Xbox, as well, a far cry from Sony who, even though they
so called accessibility first, are still missing crutial tts in areas
like the system settings 4 years later. Playing catch up, indeed.

I'm curious where you think microsoft is lacking in accessibility
days? Considering we have quite a few folks with disabilities working
for microsoft as well as apple, I think they're on a pretty level
playing field.

On 23-Jul-2018 3:40 PM, Antony Stone wrote:
Microsoft may have a better record on accessibility than "many other
companies", but depending on which other companies you compare
them with,
may not be saying much.

Also, given their overwhelming dominance in the desktop (laptop)
market, I think they have not done as well as they should have done
of accessibility.

I think Apple were late starters in the accessibility arena, but
decided to go for it, they showed how it should be done, and
simply played catch-up, in order to avoid total embarrassment
they had to in the mid 90s when they suddenly realised that people
out about the Internet, and if they didn't do something quick,
they'd be
behind in the networked world).


On Monday 23 July 2018 at 22:29:59, Gene wrote:

I'm saying this not as a moderator, but as a list member. I really
to you giving companies disparaging nicknames and I especially
it when the company has a much better record on accessibility
than many
other companies.

----- Original Message -----

On 7/24/2018 4:13 AM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I never actually lost trust in MS. I knew that skype was in time
to be a good thing and talk about html was in happening even
about 2004 if I remember correctly. Skype has come a long way and
have to thank microslop for it. They made skype what it is
today, a
ver good tool for my jobs and more.

Facebook: <> elvam2167

Skype: elvam2167

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