Re: Favourite add-ons


Jason White
 

BrailleExtender is very good. It provides functionality that I think would be better integrated into the NvDA core, but the developers may disagree - and, of course, it's their decision to make and not for me to comment idly from the comfortable armchair.

On 8/22/18, 18:05, "George McCoy" <nvda@nvda.groups.io on behalf of slr1bpz@charter.net> wrote:

Um ... to get back to the original topic, my favorite add ons are remote
support, goldwave, bit_che and golden cursor.

I, for one, would be very interested in seeing what add ons others use as
opposed to a discussion about the merit or necessity or lack thereof of
systray and slipspeak.

Thanks for reading,
George

-----Original Message-----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons

Yes! Sorry Joseph!

Rui Fontes


Às 15:17 de 22/08/2018, Joseph Lee escreveu:
> Hi,
> Correction: Joseph Lee, not Doug Lee.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 5:09 AM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>
> Hello!
>
> 1 - I agree that a screen reader should not modify the user interface
> given by the system where it is running;
>
> 2 - That should not interfere with the possibility of screen readers make
> available a alternative user interface, when it is usefull.
>
> 3 - Systray list addon was created by me, with the help of Rui Batista,
> and later modified by Doug Lee.
>
> 4 - Why I decided to create it?
> 4.1 - Most new NVDA users, at least in 2013 in Portugal and Brazil, were
> old Jaws users and so they were used to it;
> 4.2 - Sometimes, when you arrow through Systray, after making Windows+B,
> and you get to the Network icon, the system shows a popup, Network flyout
> or something like that, and make unusable the systray that way...;
>
> 5 - So, for me, the ideological reason is not valid, since the screen
> reader is not changing the user interface, but only giving anorther way to
> do the same...
>
> 6 - Regarding the announcement of copy, cut and paste, here I can
> understand the ideological reason, since the operating system do not
> announce it in some cases...
>
> 6.1 - The system never announces the fact of something being copied to the
> clipboard;
> 6.2 - When something is cutted, a visual information is given, since the
> text or file is gone, and NVDA not always give that information to us;
> 6.3 - When something is pasted, again, some visual information is given,
> but not always NVDA announce it...
>
> 7 - So, for me, the ideological reason only will be valid when NVDA give
> us the same information given visually.
>
> 8 - Untill that, I will defend the announcement of copy, cut and paste,
> making all efforts to gave a correct information, but when it will not be
> possible to be sure the operation was performed, giving us the information
> not confirmed...
>
> Regards,
>
> Rui Fontes
> NVDA portuguese team
>
>
>
> Às 11:14 de 22/08/2018, Gene escreveu:
>> Here is a correction to my last message.
>> I said that one reason that copy, cut and paste aren't announced is
>> the ideological one I discussed. That may be incorrect. I read two
>> discussions of this when users requested the feature that are
>> available on Ghithub. I didn't see the ideological reason given.
>> Instead, the mistaken belief was expressed that it can't be known
>> reliably except in certain cases, when copying, pasting, and cutting
>> occur. this is factually incorrect yet it was believed by the
>> developers for most of the years NVDA has been under development. I
>> don't know what the developers believe now.
>> The argument was that NVDA would have to be programmed to announce
>> copy, paste, and cut when the commands were given without any
>> knowledge of whether the actions were actually taken. So the
>> screen-reader would give false information if something prevented the
>> operations from occurring.
>> As the developer of the add on has demonstrated and as I did in my
>> tests, this belief is incorrect and I strongly believe that since the
>> belief has been disproven, that the feature should either be placed in
>> code or that the add on be distributed and active as part of the
>> installation. I don't care which solution would be adopted.
>> Gene
>> ----- original Message -----
>> *From:* Gene <mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2018 4:49 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> This message is rather long. I hope you find it interesting and
>> provocative of thought.
>> Rarely, one of the icons doesn't work as expect in the system tray. I
>> don't remember what now, but I couldn't do something in the system
>> tray I should have been able to do but I could in the system tray dialog.
>> Aside from that, while it wouldn't be a major problem or inconvenience
>> to accustom myself to the system tray interface for regular use, why
>> should I have to? The dialog has been standard in screen-readers
>> since Windows 98. Why wasn't it included in NVDA? As far as I know,
>> this was for ideological reasons, and ideology defeated common sense
>> and a reasonable accomodation to something that had been available for
>> so long that it is now the standard.
>> the reason there was a separate system tray dialog in the first place
>> is that the system tray wasn't accessible in Windows 98. And when the
>> system tray dialog was instituted, a lot of people were still using
>> Windows 95, where the system tray was also inaccessible. So the
>> dialog started as a way to use an inaccessible feature, not as a
>> redundancy.
>> The ideological principle is that screen-readers should never unless
>> really necessary, present anything that isn't presented to the sighted
>> user in a different format or manner or present any additional
>> information.
>> While I generally agree with this approach, ideology, strictly adhered
>> to to the point of absurdity, always fails to deal with reality or
>> common sense.
>> New users to NVDA should not have to wait until they, maybe, learn
>> about add ons to have a feature that has been standard in
>> screen-readers for twenty years.
>> And it was partly the same ideological rigidity that caused the copy
>> and paste announcements not to be heard in NVDA and I object for the
>> same reasons. At least make the add ons part of the installation if
>> they aren't added to the code. Window-eyes for years, had add ons as
>> part of the installation of the program. This is nothing radical.
>> Gene
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Clare Page <mailto:clare.page@wanadoo.fr>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 22, 2018 4:17 AM
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I find the Clipspeak add-on very useful, because without it there is
>> no announcement of when copying and cutting and pasting has been done;
>>
>> As for the system tray add-on, I hope you don’t mind me asking, but
>> why do you need this add-on, and consider it as essential, when the
>> system tray is perfectly usable without it? I’m not criticizing, just
>> curious as to why you consider it a necessary add-on and think it
>> should be part of NVDA, when NVDA can easily read the system tray on its
>> own?
>>
>> Bye for now!
>>
>> From Clare
>>
>> *From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
>> *Gene
>> *Sent:* mardi 21 août 2018 16:04
>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> I don't use many add ons because the way I use my computer, I don't
>> benefit from most of them. But the two I use regularly and I consider
>> important enough that they shouldn't be add ons is Clip Speak, which
>> announces copy and past when you copy to and past from the clipboard,
>> and the system tray dialog add on. The system tray dialog has been a
>> standard part of screen-readers since Windows 2008. It should be
>> included in NVDA itself but it isn't.
>>
>> As for Clipp Speak, I don't know if there is a new version that solves
>> these problems. the original version caused some problems in Word and
>> it caused a problem in the Youtube downloader I use even though I
>> wasn't directly using the add on. So, if you see strange problems you
>> didn't have before, even if they seem unrelated to anything you would
>> expect the add on to cause, try disabling them and see if the problem
>> disappears.
>>
>> Gene
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> *From:*Sociohack AC <mailto:acsociopath@gmail.com>
>>
>> *Sent:*Tuesday, August 21, 2018 8:37 AM
>>
>> *To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>
>> *Subject:*[nvda] Favourite add-ons
>>
>> What are the most useful add-ons for you people?
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Sociohack
>>
>>
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