Re: problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Ervin, Glenn

I think that for a site that mainly sells to the Blind, he may find it important to make the page more accessible so it works with all screenreaders.
I can understand if another business that does not target the visually impaired has little motivation to make their page work with all screenreaders in a better way.

-----Original Message-----
From: <> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

I can remember when there was no such thing as a virtual buffer or browse mode or whatever the various flavors of screen readers wish to call it. It was a nightmare! I think Dr. Rick has it right--we have tools in the toolbox for a reason. To say a site is completely inaccessible when all a person wants to use is a screwdriver but they have a hammer & a wrench & pliers at their disposal, is inaccurate at best & libelous at worst. I have no affiliations whatever w/Blind Mice. None, nada, zip. But I do know Dale Campbell a little & I do remember when he had that site built. It was maybe 4 years ago? I remember he was having quite a bit of trouble then, &, although I don't know how much it cost, it had to have set him back a pretty penny. Small businesses cannot afford that every year or even every couple years, for that matter. They're also rather at the mercy of the folks who are constructing the site. So if they get someone who doesn't know what they're doing (& I am not at all saying this is the case--I think it has to do far more w/the change in accessibility guidelines & the implementation of newer technologies), then the business is screwed if their folks don't do it right. I've seen this so often! I think we need to be reasonable in our requests. If the site truly is unusable, or if we spend an hour filling out a form that should've taken us 10 minutes w/accessibility in place, then, yes, of course, they need to be contacted. But if all that's required is a few judicious presses of the down arrow key, then I'm not sure that making demands & saying they should be shuttered is at all reasonable. I think many truly don't understand what's involved in constructing a website, as well as the expense involved. For large institutions, it's a drop in the bucket. For small businesses, it can spell the difference between keeping the lights on & not being able to support one's family. Truly liberal application of the golden rule makes the world a better place for all to live in & let live. & the truth is that it is possible to be 100% in compliance w/accessibility guidelines & nonetheless have a completely unusable site, while the converse is also at least partially true. But the truth is totally that if folks don't avail themselves, for whatever the reasons, of the tools at their disposal, they're going to miss out on an awful lot.

On 8/31/18, Gene <> wrote:
Sometimes, a lot of fuss can be used constructively, as demonstrated
by the progression of the thread.

----- Original Message -----

From: JM Casey
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2018 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Seriously. What a lot of fuss over not much this all is.

-----Original Message-----
From: <> On Behalf Of Jackie
Sent: August 30, 2018 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

The problem is that the site is based on older technology. No--the tab
key does not work particularly well on the site, as is the case w/many sites.
But using arrow keys works very well. Using them, all form fields are
labeled, etc, using latest stable NVDA, Firefox, & Chrome.

So those who are having problems--have you tried using arrow keys? You
know, folks, it can cost a lot of money to keep websites up w/the
latest technologies. & these evolve so rapidly that one can find
oneself in a position of almost constantly having to pay for a revamp.
If the site truly were inaccessible, I'd have something to say--if for
no other reason that the web is what I do--but this from my experience
is not inaccessible nor has it ever been. Try up/down arrow keys,
yall. I think you'll like the results.

On 8/30/18, brian <> wrote:
somone who can fill out the contact form can contact them as I
said I have always had this problem so that means for several
versions of nvda so maybe we need an add on to read edit boxes when
you tab from edit box to edit box so you can hear what you need to
put in to the edit boxes.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 10:06 PM, Gene wrote:
Please stop rushing to condemnation. You have no grounds to not
purchase from the site. You don't know if this is a problem just
with new versions of NVDA. I looked at the site a number of years
ago and I didn't use Chrome. It worked properly. Please get the
facts about these kinds of situations before rushing to judgment.
If this is an NVDA problem, it is not a Mice Mart problem. If it
only happends in current or very recent versions of NVDA, then
something has very likely changed in NVDA. Once we determine if the
problem is very likely an NVDA or a site problem, we don't know if
the site has been contacted and how they have responded. If it is
there proboem, do they know about it? You have no facts.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Rosemarie Chavarria <>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 8:17 PM
*To:* <>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Hi, Brian,

This is a mystery to me too. I was planning to buy a cookbook that
has microwave recipes that you make in a mug but I don't think I'll
shop on that site. I wonder if they ever will fix that site.


*From:* <>
[] *On Behalf Of *brian
*Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2018 6:10 PM
*To:* <>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

Gene this is a mystery why you don't have this problem and I
have always had this problem when you tab from edit box do you hear
what it say what you need to put in to the box? I don't.

Brian Sackrider

On 8/30/2018 9:07 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't know why you have the problem. I looked at the site using
an older version of NVDA and of Chrome and had no problem. I also
looked at it years ago and saw no such problem.


----- Original Message -----

*From:*brian <>

*Sent:*Thursday, August 30, 2018 7:29 PM

*To:* <>

*Subject:*[nvda] problem with the blind mice mart site and nvda

When I tried to sign up for an account and I tab from edit box to
box all I hear is edit has auto complete on the latest version of
fox. When I tried the same thing with ie 11 all I hear when I tab
edit box to edit box is edit. I have restarted nvda with add ons
disabled and it's still the same. This problems has been going
on for
years now and they have not fixt the problem. This problem
occures in
every edit box on the site the contact form and the sign up for
newsletters. you can't fill out any form if you don't know what
information is required in each edit box this makes the site not
accessable like it or not. I have the latest version of nvda and the
latest update of windows 10 app ecentials.

Brian Sackrider

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