Hi,
Gene,
With
all due respect, sites do constantly change unless they're like the blind mice
megamall site. I
i'm
sorry but I totally agree with Glen's message. All the training in the world
won't help if sites keep changing. I was once able to shop for groceries
online with the Vons site but when I talked to someone there, they said it's
no longer accesible with screen readers. Why do you think I have to have my
sighted sister help me place an order on Instacart? Simple--it's not really
accessible. I've talked to friends of mine and they said you almost have to
have an iphone to use their accessible app. I believe in looking at the layout
of a page so you get familiar with how to use it. I tried shopping by myself
on instacart but it didn't work--not even with
work-arounds.
Rosemarie
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2018 4:26 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem
With Submit Button On My Banking Site
The level of training
would be available if proper training were done by those who do it in the
first place. What used to be Freedom Scientific and now has a name that
evokes a bird offers a lot of training. Nothing I am describing is
taught in all that training, as far as I know.
I'm a voice in the
wilderness. If blind people would join together and demand proper
training, we might get somewhere.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September
27, 2018 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED
SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking
Site
Gene,
The
level of training you are referring to is either unaffordable on their limited
income, or beyond their interest level.
Remember,
even the average requirements of using a screenreader is more than most
sighted folks would learn to use the computer.
If
they cannot touch what they want or click on it with a mouse, it is beyond
what the majority of sighted folks would be willing to learn, and why should
the Blind be any different?
We
are forced to learn stuff that many would not even consider if they did not
have to.
Believe
me, I’m in the real world seeing newly Blinded folks all the time, and only
the most highly motivated of them are interested in learning to use a
screenreader.
I
find it disappointing, but that is the truth.
Glenn
Because of poor
training.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September
27, 2018 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED
SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking
Site
Hi
Gene,
I
gathered that, but it is my experience that the majority of Blind users, most
of whom aren’t even on a listserve, struggle to use even one screenreader,
much less other operating systems.
Glenn
I didn't say that
this isn't occurring on the Internet. I haven't used enough sites that
are out of my usual use to say. I am making a general statement about
blind people using only one screen-reader, as so many do. This is the
result of poore training. I wasn't refering specifically to or only to
the Internet. I was discussing how so many blind people don't realize
the advantages to using more than one screen-reader on the Internet or
elsewhere. If blind people knew what I said in my last message in the
thread, they might be more willing to try other screen-readers so that when
one screen-reader doesn't do something well, they might be able to do the
thing better or well using another screen-reader.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September
27, 2018 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED
SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking
Site
Gene,
All
it takes is one element that is a show stopper for someone, and that can cause
them to stop using a screenreader and give up using a
computer.
I
have been a computer user and teacher since the days of DOS, and I have spent
hours stuck on a page because of inaccessible pages that have no work-around,
unless you come to a list like this to find out some obscure technique that
happens to work.
It
sure seems like more and more of this is happening, and it is difficult for
screenreaders to keep up.
I
don’t agree with your assertion that it is just a matter of
training.
I
think with this most recent trend, we will see less and less Blind people
being able to access pages.
I
don’t know the solution, but I see a bad trend here.
I
hope I’m wrong about the trend.
Glenn
That's largely
because of poor training, however. Not for everything, but for a lot of
what people do, you can learn perhaps ten or fifteen commands that are
different for a different screen-reader and do a lot of what you could do
before. Most of what people do uses Windows or program commands. a
different screen-reader may use different screen review commands and a
different command for read title bar and certain other commands, but a lot of
what people do would be the same because a lot of what is done doesn't use
screen-reader commands.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Wednesday,
September 26, 2018 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [SUSPECTED
SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking
Site
Although
this concept of using multiple screenreaders is okay for those of us who can
do that, but if it comes to that as generally accepted practice, then the
majority of users are left behind.
Glenn
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:48
AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject:
[SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: [nvda] Problem With Submit Button On My Banking
Site
On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:58 AM, Davy Cuppens
wrote:
Simply told, the procedure is unaccessible so cal your
bank and tel them.
Not that I don't think this is a good idea, because it is,
but you also have to understand that accessibility will always be, to some
extent, a game of catch up.
Web coding keeps changing at blinding
speed, and that's not going to stop. Sometimes it's a matter of the
screen readers catching up to it, and particularly when the reason for doing a
certain thing a certain way revolves around increased security.
It's
really generally helpful to check to see if what doesn't work under one screen
reader might work under another if you happen to have a system with two or
more screen readers available. That can help to tease out where the
issue might lie.
--
Brian - Windows 10
Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134
The psychology
of adultery has been falsified by conventional morals, which assume, in
monogamous countries, that attraction to one person cannot co-exist
with a serious affection for another. Everybody knows that this is
untrue. . .
~ Bertrand
Russell
