Re: In-Process for 26th October


Gene
 

You can turn it off.  You can find the setting in documeht formatting.  if you need information about that dialog, we will provide it. 
 
I don't have clickable on.  Iff I am on a site and I don't see a way, such as a link, a button, or another control that is read, to do something, then I press enter on the text that logically is applicable, if any.  While it may be that rarely, I might want to turn clickable on to be sure about whether there is or isn't a clickable control to do what I want, it is so rare, that I don't remember if or when I did so.  Logic and inference is important in using the Internet well.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Jackie
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October

Well, I actually responded to the email that was provided for a
response in the request. I indicated that for me, there have been
countless times when an object was clickable, but because the web
developer in question didn't make it a link or a button, it would be
impossible to know that unless NVDA said "clickable". I did also
indicate that saying it multiple times was beyond annoying.
Additionally, I also suggested that there be a way to toggle the
feature on or off, per user preference. It's incorrect to assume that
because folks didn't respond positively on list that no one likes the
feature. I rather suspect instead that many of us simply used the
private email w/which we were provided.

If web authors would develop according to WCAG, there would be no need
for the feature. They don't; thus, there is. If you're fortunate
enough to visit only those websites that adhere to those standards,
then great. If on the other hand, you find yourself visiting a
multiplicity of sites, many of which do not conform to accessibility
guidelines, then it helps to know that an element can be interacted
with, because all indications are that it cannot.

They were looking for positive responses because they simply wanted to
see if anyone found it useful, & perhaps get an estimate of how many
that might be. They didn't want to just axe a feature because some
folks commented negatively on it. Those who find things useful usually
don't comment, so all they're bound to hear is the negative ones.

On 10/28/18, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> I don't keep up with current versions of NVDA because I don't have machines
> they are compatible with. In the old days, NVDA used to say clickable much
> too often, repeating it many times before it read the text that was supposed
> to be clickable.  Often, this text wasn't actually clickable.  I don't know
> that because I tried clicking on everything announced as such, but the
> context made it obvious.  Has this problem been corrected?  I would think
> that if it has and only clickable items are announced, this wouldn't be a
> problem.  But perhaps one reason you get so much negative reaction is if the
> problem hasn't been corrected.
>
> But why limit the inquiry to clickable items?  Why are block quotes
> announced by default and lists.  I don't know how others find such
> information being announced by default but to me, it's clutter.  What about
> landmarks?  I never use the landmark announcement but I don't know if they
> are useful.  I also wonder whether, even if they are useful, they discourage
> people from learning how to navigate sites without them efficiently.  My
> concern is that if you become too dependent on special accessibility
> accomodations, where a lot of sites don't have them, it may discourage many
> people from using sites that don't.  I started using the Internet before any
> of these accomodations but when discussions such as this come up, I wonder
> about such questions.
>
> There may be things I don't know such as that a lot of smaller sites use
> landmarks and use them properly but I don't know if that's the case and I
> suspect that a lot of sites don't use them at all.
>
> Gene
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Otten
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:31 PM
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October
>
>
> Remember, your request was only four people to reply with positive. How is
> it used for? I for instance don’t like it and find it worthless. But I did
> not respond, because you were looking for positive responses. So the fact
> that you got 50-50 tells me that there are a lot more who don’t like it then
> those who do. Those of us who respected your request are screwed. Get rid of
> it! Or at least make it possible for those of us who have not found it
> helpful to shut it off.
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
> wrote:
>
>
>   Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can be
> really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful
> most of the time, get rid of it".  I think it perhaps also depends on the
> sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information
> being read.  A very good example of that people are much more likely to
> complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the
> feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how annoying
> it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.
>
>
>   Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until
> someone asked last week and I tried it out.  I think if you are proficient
> with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user on
> PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard.  But it
> could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's
> there.
>
>
>
>
>   On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
> <bglists@...> wrote:
>
>     Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
>     ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
>     incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to supposedly
> do
>     something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody knows
>
>     quite what they will get when they use a control.
>      Brian
>
>     bglists@...
>     Sent via blueyonder.
>     Please address personal E-mail to:-
>     briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>     in the display name field.
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@...>
>     To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>     Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
>     Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October
>
>
>     Hey Quentin,
>
>
>
>     I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.
>
>
>
>     For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I have
> to
>     do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an action
> at
>     all when pressing enter on it.
>
>
>
>     Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS
> Outlook
>     and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services
> because
>     they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables but
> NVDA
>     recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable
> tables
>     because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex
> pages.
>
>
>
>     Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it more
>
>     useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal keyboards.
> But
>     I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric disabilities.
>
>
>
>
>
>     Best
>
>     Adriani
>
>
>
>
>
>     Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
>     Christensen
>     Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
>     An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>     Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October
>
>
>
>     Hi everyone,
>
>
>
>     This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about the
>
>     recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for his
>     innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
>     Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!
>
>
>
>     https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/
>
>
>
>     Regards
>
>
>
>     Quentin.
>
>     --
>
>     Quentin Christensen
>     Training and Support Manager
>
>
>
>     Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
>     <http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
>
>
>      <http://www.nvaccess.org/> www.nvaccess.org
>
>     Facebook:  <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>     http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>     Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   --
>
>   Quentin Christensen
>   Training and Support Manager
>
>
>   Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
>
>   www.nvaccess.org
>
>   Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>   Twitter: @NVAccess
>
>
>
>
>


--
Remember! Friends Help Friends Be Cybersafe
Jackie McBride
Helping Cybercrime Victims 1 Person at a Time
https://brighter-vision.com


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