Re: In-Process for 26th October


 

hi gene and quentin.
announcing clickable multiple times is the issue that i faced many
times on websites.
also, i am not comfortable with announcing any elements and many
months ago, i unchecked all the elements except reporting page number!
i believe it made for me using the web very easy, because i can read
anything that i want easily without hearing elements which makes
reading pages difficult and time consuming!
i really appreciate you all developers of nvda because of providing
changing reporting elements very easy for us.

On 10/29/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
You can turn it off. You can find the setting in documeht formatting. if
you need information about that dialog, we will provide it.

I don't have clickable on. Iff I am on a site and I don't see a way, such
as a link, a button, or another control that is read, to do something, then
I press enter on the text that logically is applicable, if any. While it
may be that rarely, I might want to turn clickable on to be sure about
whether there is or isn't a clickable control to do what I want, it is so
rare, that I don't remember if or when I did so. Logic and inference is
important in using the Internet well.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Jackie
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 11:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Well, I actually responded to the email that was provided for a
response in the request. I indicated that for me, there have been
countless times when an object was clickable, but because the web
developer in question didn't make it a link or a button, it would be
impossible to know that unless NVDA said "clickable". I did also
indicate that saying it multiple times was beyond annoying.
Additionally, I also suggested that there be a way to toggle the
feature on or off, per user preference. It's incorrect to assume that
because folks didn't respond positively on list that no one likes the
feature. I rather suspect instead that many of us simply used the
private email w/which we were provided.

If web authors would develop according to WCAG, there would be no need
for the feature. They don't; thus, there is. If you're fortunate
enough to visit only those websites that adhere to those standards,
then great. If on the other hand, you find yourself visiting a
multiplicity of sites, many of which do not conform to accessibility
guidelines, then it helps to know that an element can be interacted
with, because all indications are that it cannot.

They were looking for positive responses because they simply wanted to
see if anyone found it useful, & perhaps get an estimate of how many
that might be. They didn't want to just axe a feature because some
folks commented negatively on it. Those who find things useful usually
don't comment, so all they're bound to hear is the negative ones.

On 10/28/18, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't keep up with current versions of NVDA because I don't have
machines
they are compatible with. In the old days, NVDA used to say clickable
much
too often, repeating it many times before it read the text that was
supposed
to be clickable. Often, this text wasn't actually clickable. I don't
know
that because I tried clicking on everything announced as such, but the
context made it obvious. Has this problem been corrected? I would think
that if it has and only clickable items are announced, this wouldn't be a
problem. But perhaps one reason you get so much negative reaction is if
the
problem hasn't been corrected.

But why limit the inquiry to clickable items? Why are block quotes
announced by default and lists. I don't know how others find such
information being announced by default but to me, it's clutter. What
about
landmarks? I never use the landmark announcement but I don't know if
they
are useful. I also wonder whether, even if they are useful, they
discourage
people from learning how to navigate sites without them efficiently. My
concern is that if you become too dependent on special accessibility
accomodations, where a lot of sites don't have them, it may discourage
many
people from using sites that don't. I started using the Internet before
any
of these accomodations but when discussions such as this come up, I
wonder
about such questions.

There may be things I don't know such as that a lot of smaller sites use
landmarks and use them properly but I don't know if that's the case and I
suspect that a lot of sites don't use them at all.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Otten
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:31 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Remember, your request was only four people to reply with positive. How
is
it used for? I for instance don’t like it and find it worthless. But I
did
not respond, because you were looking for positive responses. So the fact
that you got 50-50 tells me that there are a lot more who don’t like it
then
those who do. Those of us who respected your request are screwed. Get rid
of
it! Or at least make it possible for those of us who have not found it
helpful to shut it off.

Mary



On Oct 28, 2018, at 6:54 PM, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
wrote:


Re clickable, the comments from everyone seem divided between "it can
be
really useful so I leave it on" and "it's really annoying and not useful
most of the time, get rid of it". I think it perhaps also depends on the
sites you visit and how readily you turn out of superfluous information
being read. A very good example of that people are much more likely to
complain about what doesn't work than praise what does - I think all the
feedback we had received on clickable previously had been about how
annoying
it was and that it read clickable when it really wasn't helpful.


Re predictive text Adriani, I must admit I hadn't used it myself until
someone asked last week and I tried it out. I think if you are
proficient
with a physical keyboard, it's probably not so useful for an average user
on
PC where you are most likely already typing on a physical keyboard. But
it
could definitely be a lifesaver for some users so it's good that it's
there.




On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 5:50 PM Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io
<bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Its better than saying nothing. Sometimes in the shark these are also
ambiguous, one suspects because the info exposed on what they do is
incomplete and so one has to just indicate they are there to
supposedly
do
something. I often wonder at the logic of page design when nobody
knows

quite what they will get when they use a control.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adriani Botez" <adriani.botez@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2018 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October


Hey Quentin,



I am replying to this e-mail after reading the last in-process.



For me at least, saying “clickable” does not help in deducting if I
have
to
do it or not. In fact, most times “clickable” does not perform an
action
at
all when pressing enter on it.



Regarding profiles, i am using profiles for MS Excel, MS Word, MS
Outlook
and Firefox. At work I am using profiles for SAP web based services
because
they have thousants of tables which in fact are only layout tables
but
NVDA
recognize them as normal tables. So I have to use profiles to disable
tables
because otherwise I get crazy when navigating through the complex
pages.



Windows 10 predictible text is a new function to me, but I find it
more

useful for tablests and smartfones. I don’t use it on normal
keyboards.
But
I guess it is a very good feature for people with motoric
disabilities.





Best

Adriani





Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Quentin
Christensen
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 08:20
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: [nvda] In-Process for 26th October



Hi everyone,



This week's In-Process is out. Today, we have more information about
the

recently released NVDA 2018.3.2, a shout out to GlitchedVision for
his
innovative fundraiser, and not one but two quick tutorials - on
Configuration Profiles, & Predictive Text in Windows 10. Enjoy!



https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-26th-october-2018/



Regards



Quentin.

--

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Training and Support Manager



Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available:
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--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/


www.nvaccess.org

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess





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