Re: fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard


Tyler Wood
 

Hi,

It's hard to explain by text alone and if you haven't actually used solid state storage in your daily computing, you really have no conception of the difference.


I was a firm believer in hard drives until a few years ago. I used to claim I would never spend the money on a solid state drive - the price vs. performance just wasn't there. Then I got a laptop with one and seeing it out perform a desktop with a spinning hard drive from the same time period in so many more ways than I described below was something of an eye opener.


Again, it's truly indescribable regarding performance differences. No, I don't recommend replacing a spinning hard drive with a solid state drive in the same computer. But if you have the chance, take a look at one, at least. I haven't actually used the surface go - but from what I have read, it uses EMMC storage, which is a budget version of solid state, essentially. The surface pro uses top of the line PCE storage and is significantly faster, both in processing power, ram, and storage. It should be at that price point, though but I have little doubt that as time goes on, solid state drives will slowly be replacing mechanical hard drives at the same price point. It won't be next year, maybe not even a year after, but they have certainly came down in price compared to even 2 years ago.


Let me reiterate that no matter how you use your computer, you will see a difference, and quite a significant one at that.



On 2018-12-23 8:54 a.m., Gene wrote:
Yes, Windows uses virtual memory when there isn't enough RAM, actual physical memory to store information.  Using virtual memory is only a fallback to keep things running when RAM is full and it significantly slows down the computer.  But the majority of users have more than enough physical memory, (RAM) that they never use virtual memory, unless they are using memory intensive programs, which the majority of users don't use, or unless there is some problem such as the computer being seriously infected and malware is taking up a good deal of memory. 
 
What do you mean anything you want has to be on SSD.  Strange, I've been using physical drives and still do and I don't feel any need for an SSD.  Maybe programs might open almost instantly instead of take a second or two.  Maybe my computer would boot up very quickly.  That is no advantage to me.  I use sleep or standby or whatever my versions of windows call it when I want to have the computer almost completely off.  I can wake from sleep in two or three seconds.  I only boot my computers about once a week or ten days so that instability doesn't occur from not rebooting over too long a time.  Some people may have to do so every two or three days but my impression is that a week is enough for a lot of people, maybe a little longer. 
 
Maybe web pages would load faster but they load plenty fast now and I am not on such a tight schedule that two seconds versus half a second matters.  The surface, if this report represents the  general performance of the Surface models, indicates that they are unreasonably slow.  The Surface, in that case, doesn't represent reasonably fast computers with physical hard drives.  If I buy a computer with an SSD, fine.  But I'm not going to spend money and take time to replace my current drives for what I consider to be no meaningful advantage for how I use the computer.
 
If I were doing something where disk access could really slow down the task, like a lot of file conversions and I did these sorts of tasks often, SSD might really save some time.  But for a lot of people, the time saved isn't worth worrying about if things like using sleep are done.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 4:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my keyboard

No indeed, and it has mostly been the case with windows over the years, as
it always has used what it calls virtual memory, ie hard disc space.
 I only use hard drives for backups and storage of non time critical stuff.
anything you want now has to be on ssd.

Indeed there is one very fast old computer with a normal drive here, anan
ancient dell laptop on xp. It has however got a small drive and hence not a
lot of stuff on it.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tyler Wood" <tcwood12@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using my
keyboard


> What world is that in? lol. Unless you're referring to the surface pro 6,
> then it is about on parr with other laptops with solid state storage.
>
>
> I mean, unless you want to go with a 1 tb spinning hard drive and in 2018,
> that's a hard sell.
>
>
> I was using a computer recently that had a core i7-7820HQ (that's a quad
> core processor with 8 threads). It had a mechanical 1 terabyte hard drive,
> and it was made last year.
>
>
> Browsing the web was so much slower than on a machine with a solid state
> drive. It shouldn't be - after all the web browser was already loaded -
> but it was truly painful. Restarting was just about as painful, to. Even
> comparing this to a cheap windows device with a solid state drive - even
> EMMC storage - and I truthfully can't recommend a mechanical hard drive
> these days. And I'm not even getting into general performance. Moving
> around the screen was painfully slow. Opening apps took far longer than a
> machine with a hard drive, even 4 or 5 years ago, used to. I'm not sure if
> it was the screen reader making performance that much worse, but it was
> similar to using a computer, back in the day, that had 256 mb of ram and
> ran windows xp. Browsing the web, while doable, was probably my biggest
> issue.
>
>
> So, yes, while the surface go is relatively expensive when you increase
> the storage space, it comes with the benefit of having a solid state
> drive. In todays day and age, we think windows 10 is very light on
> resources. It most assuredly is not.
>
> On 2018-12-22 4:29 p.m., Shaun Everiss wrote:
>> Yeah and I was seriously going to buy one at one point.
>>
>> Not anymore, they cost more than standard laptops to get one with a lot
>> of space.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/23/2018 10:33 AM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
>>> It sucks that these surface devices have these issues.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's
>>> Mail
>>> list account via Groups.Io
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 3:53 AM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>> Oh there will be...
>>>
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button until the screen turns off (about 10
>>> seconds), then release the power button.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Microsoft logo.
>>> If that doesn't work, use this shutdown process to make sure your
>>> Surface
>>> completely turns off. Here's how:
>>> Press and hold down the power button until your Surface restarts and you
>>> see
>>> the Windows logo screen (this takes about 20 seconds), then release the
>>> power button.
>>> Surface Book, Surface Pro 4, Surface Pro 3, Surface Pro 2, and Surface
>>> Pro
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the
>>> screen
>>> turns off, then release the power button.
>>> Note
>>> On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when
>>> pressing
>>> the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10
>>> seconds
>>> and then release.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> If that doesn't work, use this two-button shutdown process to make sure
>>> your
>>> Surface completely turns off. Here's how:
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button on your Surface for 30 seconds and
>>> then
>>> release it.
>>> 2.
>>> Press and hold the volume-up button and the power button at the same
>>> time
>>> for at least 15 seconds and then release both.
>>> The screen may flash the Surface logo, but continue holding the buttons
>>> down
>>> for at least 15 seconds.
>>> 3. After you release the buttons, wait 10 seconds.
>>> 4. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> Surface 3, Surface 2, and Surface RT
>>> 1. Press and hold the power button for a full 10 seconds, until the
>>> screen
>>> turns off, then release the power button.
>>> Note
>>> On some Surface models, the screen may immediately turn off when
>>> pressing
>>> the power button. If this happens, continue to hold for the full 10
>>> seconds
>>> and then release.
>>> 2. Press and release the power button to turn your Surface back on. You
>>> should see the Surface logo.
>>> bglists@...
>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>> Please address personal E-mail to:-
>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>> in the display name field.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "molly the blind tech lover" <brainardmolly@...>
>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 1:06 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>>
>>> There is no way to manually force this Microsoft surface tablet to shut
>>> down. I guess I'll have to go to the Microsoft store. Maybe they can fix
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler
>>> Spivey
>>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 7:39 PM
>>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] fore some reason nvda isn't talking when I'm using
>>> my
>>> keyboard
>>>
>>> Don't be too discouraged, breaking things is quite normal.
>>>
>>> If this is a tablet with a separate keyboard, maybe Bluetooth was turned
>>> off, the batteries died or the keyboard was turned off. Tab should at
>>> least
>>> do something, or pressing any other key should interrupt NVDA from
>>> speaking.
>>> If nothing happens even after reboot, we can figure it out from there.
>>>
>>> Here's how to power off your tablet.
>>> 1. Try pressing the power button. If that doesn't start the process,
>>> maybe
>>> things aren't set up to work that way, or something is preventing it
>>> from
>>> working.
>>> 2. The next thing to try would be a hard power off. This depends on the
>>> machine, but generally holding power for at least 5 seconds will do it.
>>> This doesn't give Windows a chance to shut down properly and save your
>>> work,
>>> so I generally only do this if I can't easily shut it down any other
>>> way.
>>> After that, just power it on normally.
>>>
>>> On 12/21/2018 4:19 PM, molly the blind tech lover wrote:
>>>> Hey guys, Molly here again.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what happened but all of a sudden my keyboard on my
>>>> tablet doesn't seem to work with nvda. I press a key, like the windows
>>>> key, and nvda is completely silent. It is silent when I press any key
>>>> on the keyboard. The only way nvda talks is if I use the mouse.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what I did, but I am so stupid. I am just too dumb to
>>>> ever be a good nvda user. Is there a way to force the machine to
>>>> restart? I am feeling completely incompetent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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