Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor


 

Hi,
I will include several examples demonstrating what I'm writing about (one of them may talk about Windows release differences also).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 11:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hey Joseph,

ok I see. Yes I agree to point 1 as well, but it depends how far in detail you explain that. Maybe it should be combined with a practical example aalong to which you explain the hierarchy in that specific case. Anyway, I think the efficiency of object navigation and its advantages should be a quintessence of the tutorial.

Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 20:20
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,
I beg to differ somewhat:
1. Object hierarchy: without talking about that, object navigation won't make a lot of sense. This is because the commands defined in NVDA will refer to parents, children and so on, and one way to get a grasp of this is hierarchy (how interface elements are organized).
2. Splitting into multiple tutorials: I'd rather not at this point, as the aim is to talk about everything you need to know when it comes to using object navigation (this is the reason why I said I'll include concepts form the user guide along with experiences).

Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,

well, the add-on simplifies object navigation for the normal user. I thought the tutorial was intended to address the normal users incl. beginners. But yes, an advanced user tutorial would ofcourse include also the principles of object hierarchy and the difference between simple and detailed object hierarchy. I don't know if this is understandable for beginners. We must bare in mind that object navigation principles can be very complex and in some cases could overwelm users. I would try to explain it as simple as possible without much developping details. Maybe two or three practical examples would bring more benefits for users than the theoretical principles behind it. But this is only my opinion.

In a second tutorial theoretical principles could be addressed, if people want it.


Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:46
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,
I need evidence to suggest that ObjPad add-on makes object navigation much better. Besides, I think it would be helpful to get a high level overview of what object navigation is and how it works before talking about the add-on (what if some people do not wish to use the add-on).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Adriani Botez
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hey Joseph,

maybe you consider doing the tutorial with objpad and structure it along that addon. I think for most users objpad makes object navigation much easier. The object navigation as it is now implemented in NVDA is actually too less user friendly. Especially if you have parent objects with lots of siplings as it is in a browser for example.

Best
Adriani


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Im Auftrag von Joseph Lee
Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. Dezember 2018 19:22
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,
The tutorial I'll be writing will be based on concepts described in the user guide, along with what I've learned over the years as an NVDA user and developer.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Pascal Lambert
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 10:11 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi Joseph,
I think a tutorial on object navigation would be helpful when you have time. Many on this list would appreciate it.
Have a merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to all.
Blessings
Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 12:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

Hi,
In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will).
I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.

On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,

If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion
of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *David
Goldfield
*Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
JAWS cursor

Ann,

I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I
first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0.
At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I
had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a
while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard
arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.

A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's
method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a
window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't
want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object
navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain
program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in
Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know
that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation.
However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat
review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may
not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard
review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8
and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous,
current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next
character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen
reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.

David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
WWW.David-Goldfield.Com <http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>

On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:

My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view. I
struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor
often does.



Join nvda@nvda.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.