Re: How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor


Some introductory explanation may be in order but I think that not a lot should be done at first.  I think that giving concrete examples, opening Notepad, for example, and showing how if you move up you will land in something like the untitled Notepad Window and farther up will put you in Windows somewhere such as on the desktop is far more easy to understand.  Or in a program like an e-mail program, show how as you move up, you land on more general parts of the program moving up from the message list and eventually leave the program to be somewhere in Windows. 
I never found verbal explanations beyond those explaining what objects are and that there are higher and lower categories of objects to be of much use when learning object navigation.  The way I learned, after learning the keystrokes used, was to experiment in various ways.  In notepad, for example, a document is all one object.  If I move by object, I don't remember where I ended up, moving left and right but if I move up, I leave the document and am in the untitled Notepad window.  That is closer to not being in the program and I believe that is considered a higher object in the tree.  The point is that I think that guided experimentation, telling the student to open a specific program, then issue a specific command and explain what the student has done and where he/she is, is far more useful.  That is how I learned, by experimenting with different commands, seeing where I was, and using that information to understand how I was moving when I would move by object.  All the verbal explanation didn't help me enough to bother with except for enough introductory explanation to understand what an object is, and how I can move deeper into a program or less into a program and actually move out of a program. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

In order to understand how object navigation works, it is helpful to get an overview of how things are laid out on screen. Effectively, when you use this mode, you're navigating in and out of various controls on screen (hierarchy, if you will).
I'll wait for more requests before writing a slightly more thorough tutorial on object navigation (I think I did this before, but can't remember quite well at the moment due to volume of changes since than and in the midst of preparing for Christmas festivities).

-----Original Message-----
From: <> On Behalf Of Brice Mijares
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2018 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ... JAWS cursor

I'd surely appreciate that. I too have a problem understanding Object navigation as I was a 18 year user of Window Eyes. Thank You.

On 12/23/2018 8:58 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
> Hi,
> If people want, I’m willing to “transcribe” object navigation portion
> of my tutorial series or do a more thorough write up.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
> *From:* <> *On Behalf Of *David
> Goldfield
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 23, 2018 8:50 AM
> *To:*
> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] How different is NVDA different than Jaws? ...
> JAWS cursor
> Ann,
> I can well relate to this struggle with object navigation. When I
> first started using NVDA in 2009 I had been a user of JAWS since version 1.0.
> At that time, object navigation was so confusing that I felt that I
> had to turn my mind inside out just to get a grip on it and, for a
> while, I pretty much ignored the capability. I just used the standard
> arrow keys to navigate and was pretty content doing so.
> A few things turned me around, however. First, understanding the Mac's
> method of interacting with windows within windows or controls within a
> window helped as the concepts, to me, were similar. And, while I don't
> want to turn this into a JAWS vs NVDA debate, the fact is that object
> navigation on the numeric keypad will allow you to explore certain
> program windows that the JAWS cursor just doesn't see, especially in
> Windows 10. When I was training new users in how to use NVDA I know
> that some of them would never have been able to deal with object navigation.
> However, pressing insert-7 (on the number pad) to put NVDA into flat
> review mode may work for a lot of people, even though this mode may
> not work for all windows. Within this mode and even in the standard
> review mode the number pad commands may be more intuitive with 7, 8
> and 9 for previous, current and next line, 4, 5 and 6 for previous,
> current and next word and 1, 2 and 3 for previous, current and next
> character. This feels very comfortable for me since ASAP, a screen
> reader I used in the DOS days, used the same commands for its review capability.
> David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist
> WWW.David-Goldfield.Com <http://WWW.David-Goldfield.Com>
> On 12/23/2018 11:40 AM, Ann Byrne wrote:
>     My most difficult issue with NVDA is understanding object view.  I
>     struggle to move freely around the screen the way the JAWS cursor
>     often does.

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