Re: more and more unlabeled links with latest version of NVDA and Firefox


Gene
 

I want to emphasize this point so it doesn't get lost or buried.  If I were corresponding with you in an off list discussion, I would have worded my initial response differently.  I might have said something like I don't think its good practice, etc.  On list, I worded it more strongly because other people are likely following the thread and I wanted to make my point strongly because I believe it strongly.  Off list is an entirely different context.

From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] more and more unlabeled links with latest version of NVDA and Firefox

I forgot to paste In  the section that is almost a personal attack.  Here it is:
              I do not, ever, need to be lectured by you about "the intent" of a given command, as I know what they can be appropriately used for, which is very often at distinct variance with your opinion.
In this diatribe, you are stating that I am often mistaken in my knowledge of such commands and their intended use.  That is very close to, maybe it even is, a personal attack as stated and it is not factually correct.  I am very careful to learn proper commands and their uses. 
 
And we aren't talking about opinions.  it is factuallly correct that if you use an incorrect command that works in some contexts and not others, you leave yourself opened to unexpected results. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] more and more unlabeled links with latest version of NVDA and Firefox

I'm sorry if you consider my comments a lecture and dictatorial.  You may disagree with me and that's fine.  but what you interpret as dictatorial is simply a firm statement of what I strongly believe is good practice.  I'm sorry if it sounds to you like being dictatorial.  It isn't. 
 
There are times when different ways of doing things are a matter or largely a matter of preference.  If someone wants to type the name or part of the name of a program into the start menu search field instead of using short cut keys or moving to the desktop and pressing enter on an icon to open a program, that is more or less a matter of preference.  I can point out the most efficient way to open programs but if someone wants to use another way, even if its slower, that is his preference.  That is not the case here.  We are talking about specific commands with different intended purposes and different functions. 
 
K is intended and is described as a move by links command.  If you are on a site you have visited before and you only want to move to unvisited links, then u is the proper command to use.  If you use u indiscriminately in place of k, you may use it on a site you have visited before and don't remember you have.  You may miss links.  Again, and maybe if I phrase it differently, you will not take offense.  I strongly believe that it is good practice to use commands for their intended purposes.  All the various ways I mentioned in my preference example are commands used for their intended purposes.  Windows has perhaps four or five different ways of opening programs but they are all intended for that purpose. You are advocating using a command with a different purpose because, if you use it in a certain context, it will work in the same way.  that leaves someone doing that opened to using it in error in an unintended context with unintended results. 
 
I would think that a bit of common sense would tell you when I am expressing something I believe strongly and that I don't think should be qualified and when I am being dictatorial.  I didn't say, do this.  I said it is good practice and I explained why.  I also stated my position so that anyone else following the thread will know what I think.  I don't just discuss points and argue my position for the one person I am conversing with directly at the time.  There are over one-thousand members of this list.  I am writing for anyone interested. 
Your reply is almost insulting in this passage:
You are accusing me of having poorly supported or erroneous opinions based on incorrect thought or incorrect facts.  Neither is true and you don't have to be insulting.  You are not the only one who can be angered or offended.  But I control it and don't make things personal.  I would appreciate a little more temperate responses when you disagree and that you consider that what may seem to you like being arbitrary and dictatorial may not be when given a little thought and viewed in the context of discussing matters on the list for the list.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2018 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] more and more unlabeled links with latest version of NVDA and Firefox

On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 01:11 PM, Gene wrote:
it's just better in general to use intended commands for their intended purpose and not start using various commands for purposes they weren't intended for. 
Gene,

             Believe it or not your way is not, and never will be, the one, true way.

              I do not, ever, need to be lectured by you about "the intent" of a given command, as I know what they can be appropriately used for, which is very often at distinct variance with your opinion.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

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