Re: Is NVDA Really Dying?


molly the blind tech lover
 

NVDA will always be my favorite screen reader. It is very responsive and does everything I need it to do. It's the best ❤

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 12:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is NVDA Really Dying?

You know, I still have that issue with narator.

In my opinion, nvda is what narator should be.

I like narator's scan mode but thats it, if nvda could copy the scan mode of narator that would be fine.

Narator is not a screen reader.

It will never be a screen reader in my view.

At most it has been upgraded from an useless crappy gimicy pit of junkware, to a handy and usefull tool with features like the supernova nav mode or jaws virtual curser.

These modes can read to a limited extent buttons, images, and a few things.

Granted, if you use microsoft programs narator is probably going to be fine with that.

Its microsoft so you'd expect it.

If all you want to do is use microsoft apps and microsoft software and nothing else, then I guess narator could be classed as a propper screen reader for microsoft software.

Its a little hit and miss with everything else though.

When it hits and it does mostly then it can be a real help but the chance of a hit and miss are 50 50.

Narator is now a nice tool but thats it.

To even get close to what nvda is.

1. be scriptable and or have addons to increase its functionality.

2. be able to have nvda's navigation features and usual features of a screenreader.

Be able to be used by third parties.

In order for the last one, narator source code needs to be released to just about everyone and microsoft won't do that because they won't.

Its like windows and a few other things,some stuff ms just will not release.

Interestingly I do know that its basically released for free the ms office file engine and most of its kernal, also a lot of windows itself and various components are opensourced or freely available.

They don't make it easy though,you need to know how to use what they released to you.

I'd really like to know for those that have reviewed narator with a really good rating how much money ms are giving them.

Coolblindtech rave about how good narator is.

Nvda connects with the os closer than any other reader I have.

If narator was truely like that, nvda and just about everything else would be dead and gone.

But narator isn't even interacting with the os to the fullest extent that it could.

Narator is good to get things going and good to get you out of a tight spot but thats it.

For those that say its good, then you are just using it in situations where it can understand things.

Now don't get me wrong, narator is no longer crap, its actually a usefull support tool.

But depending on it alone well its not really enough.

Now if all you use are universal apps and microsoft only software then you don't need anything else.

Since most people in this world at least I hope most do use other software then its fine.

Actually the only reason mainly that apple voice over itself is so good is that you are locked in to use apple only software with it, there are limitations when using thirdparty software not as bad as narator but there are limits.

It does concern me, like others are saying, that while they seem to be improving microsoft don't seem to be trying hard enough.

They could distroy vispero, and dolphin and others if they really wanted to.

Actually dolphin would probably just quit they seem to be going quite slowly and are still behind on internet brouser access and this is from a current ish user of their software and not a bash.

If narator blitsed the industry, its not like they would care if they just went.

Vispero would put up a challenge I am sure but exactly why that would be would be unknown.

Its a lot of companies put together, its only defence is probably because microsoft didn't previde before they did and they are one of the oldest screenreader companies but thats about it.

Lets face it, nvda's opensource nature means it can leap faster than well anyone including microsoft.

And while it has its limits to, I do know if microsoft really wanted it they could smash everyone like the hulk, but they don't.

There are barely 2 companies that stand in its way, one of them has become bloated and the other one just hangs in there.

The only reason they don't is probably because of the reputation of narator mainly maybe and also that a lot of governments and others still use jaws and will do so for some time.

Even if everyone went, somehow nvda would probably stay about, its not like nvda and its stuff will ever become an issue for microsoft to deal with, its not like it will ever be a competition type deal for us and microsoft, it does make me wander why they don't just move.

Then again it could be simply because they either don't want to or just don't need to.

With the net in general going tablet to a bigger degree maybe they want to push that boundary.

I do think though that ms lost a great opertunity with windoweyes.

There was a joke that ms would buy gwmicro etc but it never happened.

They got it with office using windoweyes, but no further.

If they brought windoweyes and improved it, then all they would need to do is keep it running with the latest bits and bobs, they wouldn't need narator, and if they did it right they could put it on their microsoft phones and game consoles and suddenly issue solved but they didn't.

The only way this could improve would be if microsoft decided to use nvda freely as their reader of choice, maybe asking us first, and they could freely do whatever with the code in any case to a point.

Then released narator as opensourced or gave the nvaccess group the source of narator and we combine those.

Now that wouldn't be as good as actually grabbing windoweyes when they had the chance but at least there would be room for a functional reader then.

Nvda still has some shortcomings but to be honest thats still fine.

With the fact that we now need bits of nvda loaded anyway and installed to access some secure screens I want to revisit the interceptor display drivers a lot of readers have.

Granted these would be only used if nvda was installed and not generally, heck maybe not all the time only when needed but even if it was all the time or when it was needed, the main reason I was against it is that you didn't have to install nvda, now with win10 you need to install nvda for full functionality so why not nvda needs to be installed anyway and I don't have an issue with that now.

Of course interceptors have their issues, taking from and shifting the display devices about, potentially being unstable but still, now everything runs with uia even intercepts while a lot of stuff with the comercial ones has their own drivers it does interface with things.

I know we have objectnav but I'd like a dolphin or jaws vertual curser and maybe some sort of scan mode to be toggled on and off.

I think that functionality should eventually be something we can probably do without rocking the boat, will have to rename those to something else but we could do it.

To my knowledge, nvda is one of the only programs which includes access to a synth like espeak directly as a low quality fast responce synth.

Its why I put up with espeak, as while it can be robotic and crappy its really fast and works in most situations.



On 8/02/2019 4:49 PM, zahra wrote:
i really hate narrator.
do you remember narrator of windows xp which i use?
narrator never supports my native language and even if i can use it, i
can use it for just english!
iven3 and nvda are the best for me and i always appreciate God and
pray that God grants me this grace to use it forever even if one day i
become completely sighted!
i always appreciate developers and sincerely pray for them.

On 2/6/19, Don H <lmddh50@...> wrote:
You know that everything has a life span. I hope NVDA still has a lot
of years ahead of itself but maybe just maybe Narrator will become a
great screen reader and there will be no need for NVDA or Jaws or any
other screen reader.
Right now NVDA is my screen reader of choice with Jaws being my backup
that I very seldom use.





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