Re: Some mouse navigation questions

Rui Fontes

People, excuse the use of portuguese...

Márcio, tal como nós temos as notas de 1 a 5, sendo 5 o melhor, nos Estados Unidos as notas são de A a F, sendo A o melhor e F o pior...


Às 08:29 de 16/02/2019, marcio via Groups.Io escreveu:

Guys I know I'm gonna be too stupid asking something like that and that hasn't anything to do with the matter now.
However, please, what it means "to get an F" in Joseph Lee's message?
Just gave it a google and found nothing, so...
Follow me on Twitter <>
Em 16/02/2019 04:41, Shaun Everiss escreveu:

You know, explaining what we do depends on what we know.

As a computer geek I find it natural to go flat tack and explain things in technical terms, sometimes I forget to translate back to normal understandable language and find it hard to do so at times.

On 16/02/2019 6:51 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:


Ah, I think I see where this is going.

So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about documentation, I take it as a personal failure.

How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands) can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or closing off the airspace around the route.

The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:

* Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized
into different types of tasks.
* Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy
above, your destination.
* Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or
using the analogy above, modes of travel.

Hope this helps.



*From:* <> *On Behalf Of *Mary Otten
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Hi Joseph,
You are probably right that this should be a separate thread. However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that you talked about in your last message. So when you design an interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average non-techie person.
and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it isn’t nice and elegant.g


On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@... <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>> wrote:


I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give
you a short answer:

Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar
with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the
same: both perform something which can be called upon from other
places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is
a function with a piece of input attached.

In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really
Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference
between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a
piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged
function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and
even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long
as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command,
a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.),
NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign
touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA
do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of
input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use
keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch
swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact,
these commands call the same routine).



*From:* <>
< <>> *On Behalf Of
*Mary Otten
*Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
*To:* <>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in
the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.

On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...
<mailto:richwels@...>> wrote:

Why couldn't they be in different preference categories?
Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for
Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?

On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:

The problem is, what should this array of ways of input
be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover
everything.  This is just one more example of the decline
of English.  Apps and applications, two different things,
are used increasingly interchangeably. the language in
general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is
just one area.


----- Original Message -----

*From:*Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>

*Sent:*Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM

*To:* <>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Input gestures are more abstract

Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is
intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when
it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard
being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go.

The folks at NV Access are far from the only software
developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the
route taken it makes things more opaque to the target
demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the
first place.


Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

/*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in
ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*/

          ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/

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