Re: Some mouse navigation questions


I couldn't have said it better myself because I don't understand a word.  (grin)

----- Original Message -----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions

People, excuse the use of portuguese...

Márcio, tal como nós temos as notas de 1 a 5, sendo 5 o melhor, nos
Estados Unidos as notas são de A a F, sendo A o melhor e F o pior...


Às 08:29 de 16/02/2019, marcio via Groups.Io escreveu:
> Guys I know I'm gonna be too stupid asking something like that and that
> hasn't anything to do with the matter now.
> However, please, what it means "to get an F" in Joseph Lee's message?
> Just gave it a google and found nothing, so...
> Cheers,
> Marcio
> Follow me on Twitter <>
> Em 16/02/2019 04:41, Shaun Everiss escreveu:
>> You know, explaining what we do depends on what we know.
>> As a computer geek I find it natural to go flat tack and explain
>> things in technical terms, sometimes I forget to translate back to
>> normal understandable language and find it hard to do so at times.
>> On 16/02/2019 6:51 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Ah, I think I see where this is going.
>>> So if I’m getting this right, I got an F in explaining the whole
>>> thing. This is good news, as it is a validation of a long-standing
>>> issue I had in regards to NVDA’s own documentation set: needs major
>>> overhaul (one of the reasons for creating my audio tutorials in the
>>> first place), and the approach we as developers take to explain how
>>> things work isn’t working. As a person who is serious about
>>> documentation, I take it as a personal failure.
>>> How about this analogy: think of gestures as roads you take to arrive
>>> at a certain location. Suppose you wish to go from point A to point
>>> B. You can either walk, drive, or fly. It doesn’t matter how you do
>>> it as long as you get to your destination. In the same way, when
>>> doing a command, it doesn’t matter how you do it – either from the
>>> keyboard, a touch gesture, and what not, as long as you get something
>>> from NVDA. Adding, removing, or reassigning gestures (or commands)
>>> can be akin to adding new roads, getting around an obstruction, or
>>> closing off the airspace around the route.
>>> The things listed in Input Gestures dialog can be thought of as follows:
>>>   * Categories: all sorts of things you can do with NVDA, categorized
>>>     into different types of tasks.
>>>   * Command descriptions: what NVDA can do, or in case of the analogy
>>>     above, your destination.
>>>   * Gesture (or command) itself: ways of performing that command, or
>>>     using the analogy above, modes of travel.
>>> Hope this helps.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Joseph
>>> *From:* <> *On Behalf Of *Mary
>>> Otten
>>> *Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:34 PM
>>> *To:*
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
>>> Hi Joseph,
>>> You are probably right that this should be a separate thread.
>>> However, I just want to point out that your whole explanation about
>>> JawsScripps etc. is he relevant to the average user who does not
>>> really care about programming, scripting, etc. The average user wants
>>> to use the screen reader and is not interested in all the stuff that
>>> you talked about in your last message. So when you design an
>>> interface, you need to have the average user in mind. That is the
>>> person who wants to do a task with the computer, not the geek, not
>>> the techie, and not the programmer.  Do you honestly think that the
>>> hundreds of millions of computer users throughout the world, that is
>>> the cited users, would be using computers if they had to deal with
>>> this crap? The answer is no. That’s why they invented the graphic
>>> user interface. It’s easy for sighted people. What blind programmers
>>> and others who want to make screen readers need to do is make the
>>> screen reader interface as friendly as possible for the average
>>> non-techie person.
>>> and that means using plain language where ever possible, even if it
>>> isn’t nice and elegant.g
>>> Mary
>>> On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:28 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...
>>> <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>> wrote:
>>>     Hi,
>>>     I think we should devote a separate thread for it, but to give
>>>     you a short answer:
>>>     Those of you coming from JAWS scripting world might be familiar
>>>     with the terms “script” and “function”. They are essentially the
>>>     same: both perform something which can be called upon from other
>>>     places. The crucial difference is how it is invoked: a script is
>>>     a function with a piece of input attached.
>>>     In the same way, NVDA code can define functions (they are really
>>>     Python functions). Just like JAWS scripts, the one difference
>>>     between a function and a script is how you invoke it: you need a
>>>     piece of input to invoke a script (basically a specially tagged
>>>     function), which can call other functions, run other scripts, and
>>>     even kill NVDA (if you want, but don’t try that at home). As long
>>>     as any kind of command is assigned to a script (keyboard command,
>>>     a touchscreen gesture, a braille display hardware button, etc.),
>>>     NVDA will let you perform something. This is why you can assign
>>>     touch commands to keyboard commands and vice versa, because NVDA
>>>     do let you assign (technically called “binding”) all sorts of
>>>     input mechanism for a command (for instance, just as you can use
>>>     keyboard to perform object navigation routines, a set of touch
>>>     swipes has been defined to perform object navigation; in fact,
>>>     these commands call the same routine).
>>>     Cheers,
>>>     Joseph
>>>     *From:* <>
>>>     < <>> *On Behalf Of
>>>     *Mary Otten
>>>     *Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 9:16 PM
>>>     *To:* <>
>>>     *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
>>>     Good idea. There is probably some programming thing that gets in
>>>     the way. I hope not though, because it makes very much sense.
>>>     On Feb 15, 2019, at 9:14 PM, Richard Wells <richwels@...
>>>     <mailto:richwels@...>> wrote:
>>>         Why couldn't they be in different preference categories?
>>>         Braille for Braille, Keyboard for Keyboard, Gestures for
>>>         Touch screens and Voice control for Voice control?
>>>         On 2/15/2019 6:38 PM, Gene wrote:
>>>             The problem is, what should this array of ways of input
>>>             be called?  Maybe input commands, which would cover
>>>             everything.  This is just one more example of the decline
>>>             of English.  Apps and applications, two different things,
>>>             are used increasingly interchangeably. the language in
>>>             general is becoming less precise and accurate and this is
>>>             just one area.
>>>             Gene
>>>             ----- Original Message -----
>>>             *From:*Brian Vogel <mailto:britechguy@...>
>>>             *Sent:*Friday, February 15, 2019 6:15 PM
>>>             *To:* <>
>>>             *Subject:*Re: [nvda] Some mouse navigation questions
>>>             On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 07:06 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>>                 Input gestures are more abstract
>>>             Which is precisely the problem.  Callin something that is
>>>             intimately familiar to the typical end user, and when
>>>             it's currently the only method (regardless of keyboard
>>>             being used), something "more abstract" is not the way to go.
>>>             The folks at NV Access are far from the only software
>>>             developers to go this route.   Almost every time it's the
>>>             route taken it makes things more opaque to the target
>>>             demographic, which is why it should be avoided in the
>>>             first place.
>>>             --
>>>             Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>>>             /*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in
>>>             ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*/
>>>                       ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/

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