Re: NVDA the miracle of modern assistive technology

Devin Prater

Lol Shaun, Narrator gets rather good upgrades each release of
Windows. GW Micro cannot be bought, it’s already a part of Vispero or
whatever they’re calling themselves now, VFO before. System Access is
kind of dying off, the need for a fourth screen reader isn’t really
there. Narrator, at this point, has one feature that none of them have
ever had, the ability to "caption" UI elements, usually images or
inaccessible controls, using Microsoft’s Vision AI. NVDA can do OCR, but
Narrator does that and gets a description of the element.
Devin Prater

"Shaun Everiss" <> writes:

Hmmm, maybe.

I wouldn't call narator a screen reader no matter what microsoft says.

Ok, from a total piece of shitty crap gimic its assended to a usefull assistive tool,
certainly good enough to be accessible in microsoft programs and where that is
concerned thats fine I guess.

Outside it its still a bit hit and miss.

So it could rise to become a screenreader, but I doubt it will, maybe upgrade that
from never to be well maybe it will or it won't, I am giving a lot of leeway into what
I would define a screenreader to actually be.

One thing I would define a screen reader as not that it can read the screen, but it
can cope with a lot of challenges a user may access daily, icons, some graphics, and
some nonstandard programs.

Nvda does read things reasonably well, and while it can read most interfaces its
strength is the web that includes but is not limited to web based programs.

Fortunately for the end user web interfaces have taken off in the last 5 years.

Everyone has its limitations.

If nvda has any, in terms of limitations they are quite small, its all depending on
the imagination of the user chucking out crazy ideas and then a really crazy
programmer to make those become reality or it can be the other way round.

Some crazy programmer can chuck his dream at the unsuspecting user and make a
real big splash without the comercial fanfare.

To be honest if I was microsoft, I would ditch the crap that was narator, and just
buy gwmicro and make it its own.

I mean it had it once but its to late to get what it lost now.

It wouldn't have to do much to keep windoweyes running either and it would be

The biggest weakness with dolphin is their either unwillingness or really slo
progress in upgrading their internet engine to work with more brousers than
internet explorer which microsoft has deemed insecure and crap.

Even before that everyone caught up with well everything else.

Jaws, I don't know you need scripts to run everything, in nvda true you do have
scripts nvda is one big script after all.

However in jaws you need to have scripts to even run jaws.

I also have reservations on its licencing system especially for some modules and

I have never used screen access to properly say either or on the subject so I won't,
the screen access to go app when it worked was good as far as it was.

To be honest, the only thing microsoft has is this piece of crap called narator which
microsoft had a chance to kill completely but didn't.

Why they didn't just buy wineyes when they had a chance is anyone's guess, now
they are trying to slowly get back the reputation for crappy narator instead of going
with something else.

They are making it harder on themselves to be honest.

Even if narator does achieve status of a screen reader, I don't know.

Nvda is what narator should be right now and its not even close.

On 4/03/2019 5:20 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

You forgot narrator, it's an upcoming screen reader but it to me deserves a
place in the standing tall category.

On 3 Mar 2019, at 18:37, Pascal Lambert wrote:

Thank you. Eloquently stated. Ditto.

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of
Jaffar Sidek
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 9:32 PM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA the miracle of modern assistive technology

Hi all. In 2006, when Michael Currant conceived the idea of developing an
open source screen reader to neutralize the high cost of commercial screen
readers, and when he and James Teh founded NVAccess, The feeling going
around was that sooner or later, this upstart in the screen reader industry
would shortly be gobbled up by the more recognized players. Well, Window
eyes has gone down the proverbial plug hole. SaraTech and Dolphin has
gone almost quiet, and the two left standing proud and tall in the boxing
ring is JFW and NVDA. These are the facts, not mere conjecture, and the
facts are clear enough to see. Why am I writing this? Financial reward is a
big factor in motivating a company to work towards improving a product.
However, the demand for immediate rewards can also lead to a product
being rushed out in the hope that it will satisfy the needs of the customers
as well as filling up the company's coffers. But hope is one thing, delivery
is another vital factor. I do not have to revise the recent debacle
experienced by the end users of Windows 1809. Jaws is now into it's 2019
version. Yet their new driver is not as stable as it should be and there are
complains about it from users and Jaws scripters alike.

And what about NVDA? O yes! NVDA does have it's quirks, No software can
avoid that. But there is an almost daily alpha version released that tries to
fix reported issues. Then we must not leave out a dedicated community of
users who do their very best to help in the form of advise and tutorials,
some even dedicating part of their website to put up materials for
reference for those who need them. And then there are those from the
community who help with NVDA's development, Translators who help
translate NVDA itself and it's numerous addons into the many languages,
and the addon developers who develop addons that make NVDA more than
just a mere screen reader, All these done in their own spare time and
without the apparent rewards in dollars. Which reminds me, Is there a
clock addon for JFW? Which brings me back to motivation. I did earlier
allude to the fact that monetary reward is a big incentive. But you know,
humanity can be a bigger incentive than finance. For most blind people,
and especially for those living in the poorer countries, just getting a
working computer makes a dent in their pockets. Add the cost of a screen
reader and the dent could be astronomical. NVDA has provided us from
rich and poor regions of the world with another alternative, and that in
itself is a modern miracle. And, most important, NVDA, as I said earlier is
not just a mere screen reader. It goes way beyond basic screen reading
tasks like browsing the web or checking emails or formatting documents.
It works seemlessly with programming IDES like visual Studio, and Android
Studio, just to name a few, and then musicians use it in association with
DAWS like Reaper to make music as a hobby or as a profession, and
broadcasters benefit from addons developed for Station playlist studio. I
use both Jaws and NVDA, and I had to pay almost 2000 Singapore dollars
to get my new version of Jaws. And after all that, I had to pay for some
scripts by independent Jaws Scripters to make jaws work with some
applications. NVDA is open source and free, it's addons are free, and
therein lies the difference.

How then can a thread about NVDA dying be ever posted is way beyond
my understanding. Negative posts like this are rather disturbing because
it could put a huge dent into the efforts of all concerned with NVDA's
development. And one must not forget the extraneous update routines put
out by Microsoft which not only affects NVDA but JFW as well. Pardon this
long and rambling email, but I felt that I had to pen my thoughts onto
paper, as it were, just to remind ourselves that we do owe these people
dedicated to ever improving NVDA a huge debt, and to remind us all that
as long as this great effort continues, NVDA will be far from dying a slow
death or disappearing into the ether. To me, NVDA is, and always will be a
modern miracle. Cheers!

Join to automatically receive all group messages.