locked Re: NVDA for Android and IOS


I meant access from microsoft.

Microsoft has eventually come into access but only in the last 10-15 years.

And its almost 12-11 years really.

Its why jaws is the monster it is etc.

In dos there were a lot of things, but microsoft never showed interest with access till well windows 98 aproximitly maybe thats a bit harsh, the first form of msaa shipped withI think either windows 95 sr2 or 3, so maybe as early as 1996-1997.

Certainly office 1997 was accessible and had some accessibility to it.

windows 1995 sr1 did have a little accessibility.

I should have been a bit more clear,when I said accessibility I meant it from the microsoft side mainly.

On 13/03/2019 6:18 AM, Travis Siegel wrote:
I have to take exception to the statement that in the dos days there was no access at all.  There were many more dos screen readers than there has ever been windows screen readers, so that part of your email is completely wrong, but otherwise, I can't disagree with anything stated.

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well to be honest what we really need to remember is why we got jaws, before
freedom scientiffic became the real bad boy it is now, and other readers.

Back in the dos days there was no accessibility at all.

Nothing much came from microsoft's end.

This continued through to windows 95.

In windows 98, microsoft started the active accessibility libraries which
improved things but not that much.

In 2003 or there abouts with help from gwmicro the direct chain manager was
done so you could handle readers in a multiple chained process, before that
you made your own chains but they were unstable.

Basically the first screen reader was your video card, which was part of the
next reader up till the end, the last screen reader was your video card.

Start one out of sync, run 2 at once, remove and or uninstall things in an
unordered fashion and you broke the chain.

There were 2 ways to fix this.

1.  remove the chain, reinstall the video drivers and make another one.

Or just reformat.

Which I did a lot of.

You needed technical experience to make the reg files for  the chain and
while I got dolphin support to construct one, it was as fragile as a glass
window, and not that good.

The dcm became mirror drivers in vista and 7 and then in windows 8 microsoft
started the universal access librarys we all love and loath.

The reason jaws and others existed was simply because microsoft didn't come
to the party till late.

Even when xp to 7 came up, microsoft never really put much into narator.

It was just after the laws came in going against those that didn't make
stuff accessible.

It probably also helped that after the death of outspoken and all the new
laws, apple not only showed that it could make an accessible reader but
showed off that it could make something better than waht was about at the

Voiceover has its limits of course but it is in all the programs and devices

Google, same with talkback but there were others at first in droid.

So eventually microsoft had to move.

The reason we are seeing the reader industry shrinking now is possibly
because microsoft is pulling its weight and attempting to catch up to all
the rest.

Now narator is nothing against nvda but its close.

Narator is not jaws.

But its big enough as a bold new kid on the block, not fully grown mind you
that it is shifting mountains if only smaller ones.

Time will tell with businesses if this means the death of jaws or other
readers, sadly dolphin seem to be in no hurry to improve at any speed so
sadly they may die.

I have used their stuff for ages now but still.

Of course the fact we are using a more or less web based interface both
inside  of our oses now and online on websites and web based programs does

There was a time where anything went and while there are a few bad acters
about its not as bad a landscape as it was 5 years back.

There is one end of the road in the screen readers though.

And this isn't actually jaws, either we have reached the inovation curve and
thats not likely because nvda is still inovating things.

Its almost like the comercial guys can't be bothered either that or ms is
moving to fast with their current model.

Or maybe we can accept that most of them have just about done everything
they set out to do and who knows.

As an os, while I really like win10's ease of use, search, and a few other
apps, and shortcuts, the only reason I wouldn't go back to 7 is simply
because 10 in some ways needs less shortcuts to get things done and less key

On the flipside without my hacking tweaking tools win10 would be quite

On the systems I admin which are not mine there are issues, and I hate

Most everything else I can get used to.

On 12/03/2019 3:04 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

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