locked Re: NVDA for Android and IOS


Gene
 

Windows 95 had speech if the screen-reader generated it.  I used three different screen-readers with Windows 95 and they all could generate speech through the sound card.  This was a function of the screen-reader in Windows 95.  It was not a question of Windows.  I don't recall what the situation was in Wihndows 3.1. but Windows 95 was the first version of Windows as its own more or less operating system. Previously, earlier versions of Windows were, as I understand it, much more closely associated with DOS.  Someone with more technical knowledge may wish to explain this more clearly.
 
Regarding MSAA, it was incorporated into Windows 98.  In Windows 95, though it came without MSAA, Microsoft released a file that you could run that would add it to Windows 95. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2019 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA for Android and IOS

Well, windows 98 was the first one with synthetic speech through the
sound card before then you had to have speech from an external unit.

I with older systems that there were ways to make windows and earlier
things than xp talk, some of them I have heard about.

Windows 3.1 was a glorified dos shell really.

In windows 2000 aparently the first narator ever was made.

While microsoft was active in the later stages of windows 95 through to
98 it really didn't seem to show much interest till windows 98.

Everyone and thing had its own way of accessing the os.

With windows xp and up microsoft started standardising accessibility it
may have happened before that but xp is when I started noticing.

It got better and better to a point in windows 7, but everyone had their
own intercepters, their own interface, and their own way.

Its only in windows 8 and later microsoft seems to be committed to
actually doing something, and with 10, they want to show off.

I am sure that apple and then google probably changed it for them.



On 13/03/2019 7:12 PM, zahra wrote:
> thanks for your fast response.
> what do you mean that windows was accessible with third-party software?
> since i did not never use and see windows versions before xp, so, i am
> not familiar with previous versions.
> sorry for my simple questions!
>
> On 3/12/19, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>> Oh dos is accessible, with thirdparty software.
>>
>> windows 3.1 was accessible with third party software.
>>
>> all versions of windows are accessible with third party software.
>>
>> But in 1996 or there abouts microsoft started making it easier for
>> things to access windows itself.
>>
>> Before that everyone had to do a lot of stuff to see windows.
>>
>> Or whatever.
>>
>> This continued up to xp, and slowly to win8, now with 10, microsoft is
>> actively trying to make windows accessible out of the box which
>> basically means instead of having your reader of choice having to
>> reinvent the wheel each time, they can use whats allready there.
>>
>> In windows 10 microsoft is actively trying to coppy apple with narator,
>> they have even made the installs accessible.
>>
>> Windows and dos were not inaccessible, but for a while microsoft was not
>> as active as it is now.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 13/03/2019 5:48 PM, zahra wrote:
>>> hi shaun.
>>> since you are expert and tried different versions of windows,
>>> do you mean that dos and windows 95 were not accessible and the first
>>> accessible version of windows, is windows 98?
>>> did i understand you correctly?
>>> thanks again for any help, God bless you!
>>>
>>> On 3/11/19, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
>>>> Well to be honest what we really need to remember is why we got jaws,
>>>> before freedom scientiffic became the real bad boy it is now, and other
>>>> readers.
>>>>
>>>> Back in the dos days there was no accessibility at all.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing much came from microsoft's end.
>>>>
>>>> This continued through to windows 95.
>>>>
>>>> In windows 98, microsoft started the active accessibility libraries
>>>> which improved things but not that much.
>>>>
>>>> In 2003 or there abouts with help from gwmicro the direct chain manager
>>>> was done so you could handle readers in a multiple chained process,
>>>> before that you made your own chains but they were unstable.
>>>>
>>>> Basically the first screen reader was your video card, which was part of
>>>> the next reader up till the end, the last screen reader was your video
>>>> card.
>>>>
>>>> Start one out of sync, run 2 at once, remove and or uninstall things in
>>>> an unordered fashion and you broke the chain.
>>>>
>>>> There were 2 ways to fix this.
>>>>
>>>> 1.  remove the chain, reinstall the video drivers and make another one.
>>>>
>>>> Or just reformat.
>>>>
>>>> Which I did a lot of.
>>>>
>>>> You needed technical experience to make the reg files for  the chain and
>>>> while I got dolphin support to construct one, it was as fragile as a
>>>> glass window, and not that good.
>>>>
>>>> The dcm became mirror drivers in vista and 7 and then in windows 8
>>>> microsoft started the universal access librarys we all love and loath.
>>>>
>>>> The reason jaws and others existed was simply because microsoft didn't
>>>> come to the party till late.
>>>>
>>>> Even when xp to 7 came up, microsoft never really put much into narator.
>>>>
>>>> It was just after the laws came in going against those that didn't make
>>>> stuff accessible.
>>>>
>>>> It probably also helped that after the death of outspoken and all the
>>>> new laws, apple not only showed that it could make an accessible reader
>>>> but showed off that it could make something better than waht was about
>>>> at the time.
>>>>
>>>> Voiceover has its limits of course but it is in all the programs and
>>>> devices now.
>>>>
>>>> Google, same with talkback but there were others at first in droid.
>>>>
>>>> So eventually microsoft had to move.
>>>>
>>>> The reason we are seeing the reader industry shrinking now is possibly
>>>> because microsoft is pulling its weight and attempting to catch up to
>>>> all the rest.
>>>>
>>>> Now narator is nothing against nvda but its close.
>>>>
>>>> Narator is not jaws.
>>>>
>>>> But its big enough as a bold new kid on the block, not fully grown mind
>>>> you that it is shifting mountains if only smaller ones.
>>>>
>>>> Time will tell with businesses if this means the death of jaws or other
>>>> readers, sadly dolphin seem to be in no hurry to improve at any speed so
>>>> sadly they may die.
>>>>
>>>> I have used their stuff for ages now but still.
>>>>
>>>> Of course the fact we are using a more or less web based interface both
>>>> inside  of our oses now and online on websites and web based programs
>>>> does help.
>>>>
>>>> There was a time where anything went and while there are a few bad
>>>> acters about its not as bad a landscape as it was 5 years back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is one end of the road in the screen readers though.
>>>>
>>>> And this isn't actually jaws, either we have reached the inovation curve
>>>> and thats not likely because nvda is still inovating things.
>>>>
>>>> Its almost like the comercial guys can't be bothered either that or ms
>>>> is moving to fast with their current model.
>>>>
>>>> Or maybe we can accept that most of them have just about done everything
>>>> they set out to do and who knows.
>>>>
>>>> As an os, while I really like win10's ease of use, search, and a few
>>>> other apps, and shortcuts, the only reason I wouldn't go back to 7 is
>>>> simply because 10 in some ways needs less shortcuts to get things done
>>>> and less key presses.
>>>>
>>>> On the flipside without my hacking tweaking tools win10 would be quite
>>>> hellish.
>>>>
>>>> On the systems I admin which are not mine there are issues, and I hate
>>>> ribbons.
>>>>
>>>> Most everything else I can get used to.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/03/2019 3:04 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
>>>>> What people need to remember here is that accessibility software,
>>>>> regardless of platform, has generally arisen due to a couple of
>>>>> factors, with different emphases:
>>>>>
>>>>>    1. Recognition of lack of accessibility and need for it
>>>>>    2. Desire to make money
>>>>>    3. Desire to provide a real alternative to expensive option(s) many
>>>>>       cannot afford
>>>>>    4. Public relations value
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is no surprise that Windows, the world's most widely used computing
>>>>> platform, has more than its share of screen readers because all of the
>>>>> above have been at play with the various players in the field at one
>>>>> point or another.  I leave it to you, the reader, to decide which were
>>>>> bigger factors for each product.
>>>>>
>>>>> Factor #1 is utterly lacking on iOS and Android.  Whether one likes
>>>>> VoiceOver or TalkBack, both are fully mature products that do their
>>>>> job admirably.  There can almost certainly be nothing as far as
>>>>> factors numbers one through three are concerned in these environments,
>>>>> and given the degree of maturity and broad acceptance of what is
>>>>> already available, factor number four has almost zero impact.   Who's
>>>>> going to hail "the next VoiceOver/TalkBack"?   Not many, that's for
>>>>> darned sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are limited resources for implementing accessibility software,
>>>>> both monetary and otherwise.  It makes absolutely no sense to try to
>>>>> open a market that's not really a market in the first place.  Choices
>>>>> have to be made, and the probability of an entity that has the history
>>>>> of NVAccess doing a radical gear shift to other platforms makes very
>>>>> little sense from virtually any angle.
>>>>>
>>>>> My dear departed Aunt Lila used to quote a rather salty old relative
>>>>> of hers when people brought up wishes such as this, that have all the
>>>>> odds stacked against them, and for good reason, "Wish in one hand,
>>>>> s*^t in the other, and see which gets full first." That sums up my
>>>>> thoughts about the feasibility and likelihood of NVDA leaping across
>>>>> computing ecosystems.
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian *-*Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>>>>>
>>>>> */A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
>>>>> need for illusion is deep./*
>>>>>
>>>>>             ~ Saul Bellow, /To Jerusalem and Back/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>


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