Re: Proposal to set NVDA's desktop layout object navigation keys to be active in desktop layout only


Quentin Christensen
 

Ah, but the current situation (object navigation using two sets of keys in laptop layout) restricts functionality to those who have a number pad but no separate navigation keys.

My proposal, as you've pointed out, "restricts functionality" in only allowing one set of keys for functions at a time.

And the third proposal, to make a way of selecting either option, may not restrict functionality as such, but it adds complexity (an extra setting, or keystroke, or both), and for some users, that is as bad as they may find it confusing and not be able to setup NVDA how they would like.

Yes, you can make arguments for and against all of those points (for instance, I still don't see my proposal as restricting functionality, as there would still be at least ONE way of doing everything still at any given time), but there is no single solution that is going to work for everyone.  Yes it can be useful to be able to do something from the number if you are there, or from the main keyboard, if you are there, but the intention of laptop keyboard layout was to provide the ability to access all NVDA functions for those using laptops which didn't have number pads - it wasn't supposed to be just a way of duplicating functionality - in fact, if you want to add extra keystrokes, you can use the input gestures dialog to add as many as you like.

What I need to do, is work out what the best setup is for the majority of users, out of the box, and the easiest way to adjust the functionality for those who desire that (currently you could free the number pad in laptop layout, by deleting all those keystrokes in the Input Gestures dialog - however it would be a tedious process, and there is a great risk of accidentally removing a keystroke you intended to keep).



On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 11:41 AM Cristóbal <cristobalmuli@...> wrote:

Honestly, why restrict functionality? Being able to execute commands either from the main keyboard or numpad depending on what you’re doing or where your hands are is a huge plus. Be it with Jaws or NVDA.

This was part of my issue I wrote about a  while back with NVDA. That there wasn’t a means to navigate via paragraph, line or whatever strictly off of the keyboard without having to use the arrow keys.

Some may think it’s redundant that there are duplicate commands for the same function, but again, I and I’m sure a lot of folks find it rather useful to accomplish the same task from both the numpad and main keyboard.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 3:35 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Proposal to set NVDA's desktop layout object navigationkeys to be active in desktop layout only

 

Hi Quentin!

I wanted you to know that

I use the laptop commands for object navigation on my laptop, even though it has a Number pad.

I like the laptop commands better, because you can keep your hands right on the alpha-numeric keys. I love just being able to hold down the shift and NVDA keys, and just press the arrow keys to do object nav.

I would not be affected at all.

I just wanted you to know!

David Moore

                                                                Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2019 5:52 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Proposal to set NVDA's desktop layout object navigationkeys to be active in desktop layout only

 

Hi Marcio,

 

Do you use laptop layout or desktop layout currently?  Laptop layout already redefines all the object navigation keys to use other keys on the keyboard (the original idea was that laptop layout would provide full functionality on a keyboard without a number pad).  Currently what actually happens is that with NVDA in laptop keyboard layout, you have access to BOTH the laptop layout object navigation, AND the desktop (number pad) object navigation.

 

Our proposal is to set the number pad object navigation commands to work ONLY in Desktop layout (which is what most people expect anyway).

 

Would that break how you currently use NVDA?  Since you said your number pad isn't working, it sounds like it shouldn't make a difference, but maybe I didn't explain it well to begin with.

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 8:37 PM Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@...> wrote:

For a laptop with a numpad just set the layout to desktop and you’re done.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of marcio via Groups.Io
Sent: Donnerstag, 9. Mai 2019 11:26
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Proposal to set NVDA's desktop layout object navigation keys to be active in desktop layout only

 

Quentin,
I do have a laptop which was supposed to have a numpad. Nowadays, it's not working.
So, with this new proposal, would I lose all the functionalities related to object navigation?
If so, I'd imagine that the proposal for a hybrid layout is more desirable, especially for me because this way I don't lose access to all of this.


Cheers,
Marcio

AKA Starboy

 

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

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Em 08/05/2019 21:11, Quentin Christensen disse:

Following on from the Key assignments in NVDA thread, I have created an issue on GitHub:  https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/9549 

 

Basically, the desktop layout object navigation and review cursor keys in NVDA are actually set to be active for ALL keyboard layouts.

 

Laptop layout was designed for users without a number pad, but there are users who use Laptop layout but still have a number pad and wish to use this for navigation (Without NVDA running, the number pad, with numlock off, replicates the navigation keys of home, end, page up, page down, insert, delete and the arrow keys and some laptops have a number pad but no separate navigation keys).

 

My proposal then is to set the desktop object navigation / review cursor keys to be active in desktop layout only.

 

If there is anyone who uses laptop layout but still wants to access the desktop layout object navigation keys, please let us know!

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

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Twitter: @NVAccess 

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