locked Re: Lags With Notepad++


Gene
 

Interesting.  I hope things improve.  it sounds as though they may.
 
It sounds as though Narrator may be becoming more important to know than it used to be to fill the gap where NVDA doesn't do something well yet.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

Hi,

Yes and no, mostly dealing with UI accessibility (not UI Automation) assumptions. Yes, provided that Microsoft do ask employees with disabilities to test UI changes with assistive technologies, or write tests to simulate it; no, because of intraorganizational and intercultural communication issues- I bring up intercultural because disability is a culture, and talking to those outside require communication at the level of cultures.

To elaborate further: most workarounds I’ve cataloged over the past five years has to do with incomplete implementations, which suggests the level of collaboration between accessibility team (including Narrator developers) and other Microsoft teams need to be enhanced. The biggest debacle in this space (which also surprised Microsoft people) was “invalid entry” announcement from NVDA, caused by programming issues from Microsoft side (I and other Insiders had to deal with that for the better part of 2016). Currently the newly released Windows Terminal app for Windows 10 cannot be used by screen reader users (including Narrator users) due to lack of UI Automation implementation from Microsoft (I know I’m saying this for the umpteenth time), which Microsoft did acknowledge and is on the roadmap for future releases.

At least Microsoft is highlighting public-facing accessibility changes and steps taken to make sure screen reader users are treated with respect, but there are things that may need to be implemented (some of them I imagine painful) including unit tests and other cultural changes that will make sure at least Narrator can deal with user interface elements. I know I keep mentioning Narrator as a gold standard on Windows 10, because Narrator is an example of an app that strives to conform to UI Automation and Windows 10 changes, with other screen readers following shortly after (usually NVDA is one of the first third-party screen readers to do so mostly due to my add-on). For this reason, I test UI changes with Narrator and NVDA to make sure both screen readers can stay on the same page in regards to the user interface, and if Narrator fails, that’s the moment I press Windows+F to submit a feedback or two about it because a problem like that will affect everyone.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

 

but are the changes Microsoft makes ones that could have been avoided with more planning or development earlier? 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Lee

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 1:18 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

 

Hi,

I release my add-on periodically not only due to changes in Windows 10 itself, but sometimes due to apps. I sometimes end up writing a workaround, only to revert it after I and others submit a feedback and Microsoft fixes it (the most recent case being changes to Settings app in next year’s update that had to be reverted when my own workaround wasn’t needed anymore).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:10 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

 

This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and why I object to Windows 10 strongly.  It also discusses how my objection is related to screen-reader development.  In my opinion, Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that affect accessibility.

 

At some point, you will have little choice.  Increasingly fewer programs will be supported in XP.  Your old browsers will work with fewer and fewer sites.  If you need something new like a printer, no new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers.  When XP will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't know. 

 

My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades per year.  Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there ar no problems.  Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7, there was only one.  I very much object to Microsoft imposing this level of inconvenience and potential problems on users.  And, from the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect accessibility.  Lee releases one release after another of the Windows Essential app, for example.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Canazzi

Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++

 

Hi Zara,

I also d not like change.  I held onto my XP system for years after it
expired.  But when I eventually got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no issues.  If your issues are financial, that's
another item entirely.  But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal.  I bet you would get used to it
in a few days at worst.



On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM, zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>> Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>> systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...> wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July 12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that when you run XP and use the internet in
>>> any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would not do it.
>> imam ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

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