Show me in the archives where I viciously attack anyone. I do
not. but I strongly object to people who make unqualified statements
such as ribbons are terrible, ribbons are very hard to use, etc.
That's because I know, from experience, that ribbons only require an
understanding of how they are laid out but that, in essence, they are
similar to menus except that you tab through a ribbon instead of down
arrowing or you shift tab instead of up arrowing. There are other
things to learn but that is the essence of ribbons compared to menus.
My strong response, and I don't attack people personally, I strongly
disagree with what and how they say what they say about ribbons, is because
I strongly object to people being discouraged from learning by wildly
overgeneralized statements about a completely accessible interface that a
lot of people are afraid of because they haven't received proper instruction
and because they have heard so many negative comments about from others who
haven't received proper instruction. And once they successfully use
ribbons, they may become more confident computer users, more willing to try
new things, because they see how the only thing they had to fear in this
case was fear itself, as was famously said.
If I were talking with someone off list, I wouldn't write in the same
strong way about criticism of ribbons because the comments of the person
wouldn't be on a list and wouldn't possibly be discouraging many people from
learning. If you can find instances where I have viciously attacked
people, I'll apologize. And because I have strong feelings about this,
I created a tutorial teaching use of ribbons which I have shared here more
than once when the topic has come up,.
What does Windows 10- have to do with any of this? I don't make
up widespread stories about full upgrades that have caused serious problems
for some users, to the extent that Microsoft stopped releasing an update
perhaps about a year ago, for a month or more of further corrections and
testing. And there have been two such bad upgrades in the last
eighteen months. I don't think the last one was nearly as bad but
Microsoft has a lot of confidence to regain among users. While the
number of people asking about problems after a Windows 10 upgrade is not
large, even so, there are enough to indicate that problems occur more often
than in earlier versions of Windows, where service packs were released far
more infrequently and people didn't have to spend perhaps forty-five
minutes, perhaps an hour, upgrading Windows twice a year.
What does any of this have to do with strongly responding to someone
who once, or repeatedly states how terrible ribbons are, as though it is a
matter of fact?
And I am not critical of people who upgrade to Windows 10. I
simply think that, with what I have discussed, the rush to upgrade instead
of waiting to near the end of support is questionable for people who don't
want to use specific new features or apps in Windows 10 and who want as
reliable and stable an operating system as possible. If people are
curious or experimenters or want new features, fine. If someone is
buying a new computer, that will come with Windows 10. I am not
personally criticial on a personal level. But I think that users
should seriously consider the advisability of upgrading a system they
currently own far in advance of support ending for Windows 7. and it
also depends on how satisfied they are with Windows 8 as well, where support
will continue longer. It is my impression that Windows 10 is
harder for screen-reader developers to stay on top of, thus taking resources
that would have been used for other things before Windows 10 and diverting
them into keeping things as accessible as possible, thus possibly slowing
work on other projects that would benefit blind computer users.
I have never objected to the Windows 10 interface nor objected to
people upgrading on those grounds. I haven't used Windows 10. As
far as I can tell, not having direct experience of using it, the interface
itself is similar to Windows 7. As far as I can tell, working with
apps, not applications, is somewhat different but the actual interface of
Windows is similar and if applications, not apps are used, my impression is
that there isn't much learning to do.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
Hi Gene,
It's kind of funny how you at times viciously
attack people who are uncomfortable with use of the ribbon, but are so
ambivalent--some say---critical of those who wish to upgrade to Windows
10.
Unlike many people, I do not have any of the major issues
when using
Windows 10. I know there were issues with 1803, but I
never experienced them.
Getting used to the interface of
Windows 10 is much easier than the Windows 8 original version which had only
the use of the grid instead of the somewhat standard search/start menu
system.
Use of the ribbons is much more of an
issue--particularly if you use a lot of Word/Excel/Access features.
Yet, I muddle through and am able to get by--however so clumsily.
By
comparison, the interface of Windows 10 for normal operation is a cake walk
when compared to going into what would be in the old pre-ribbon days sub
menus of sub menus.
These are facts--experienced not only by
blind people but also by sighted people as well. This is so much so
that there are ribbon disabler programs coming up the ying yan which are
obviously not intended solely for the blind.
On 7/12/2019 2:10 PM, Gene wrote:
This message discusses why you will have to upgrade at some point and
why I object to Windows 10 strongly. It also discusses how my
objection is related to screen-reader development. In my opinion,
Windows 10 makes screen-reader developers waste a significant amount of
time and resources constantly changing as Microsoft makes changes that
affect accessibility.
At some point, you will have little choice. Increasingly fewer
programs will be supported in XP. Your old browsers will work with
fewer and fewer sites. If you need something new like a printer, no
new printers or scanners will have XP compatible drivers. When XP
will become so unusable that you will be forced to make a change, I don't
know.
My main objection to Windows 10 is that there are two full upgrades
per year. Microsoft has demonstrated that it can't properly test two
major upgrades and it is a major inconvenience to upgrade, even if there
ar no problems. Before Windows 10, there were service packs spread
out, perhaps one every two or three years, and in the case of Windows 7,
there was only one. I very much object to Microsoft imposing this
level of inconvenience and potential problems on users. And, from
the standpoint of NVDA, developers have to constantly make changes to
accommodate the constant and unending changes in Windows 10 that affect
accessibility. Lee releases one release after another of the Windows
Essential app, for example.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Lags With Notepad++
Hi Zara,
I also d not like change. I held onto
my XP system for years after it
expired. But when I eventually
got up enough nerve to upgrade, I did it
big time and I have no
issues. If your issues are financial, that's
another item
entirely. But if it is simply a fear of the unknown, rest
assured that Windows 10 is no big deal. I bet you would get used
to it
in a few days at worst.
On 7/12/2019 12:21 PM,
zahra wrote:
> i never use ten, even if someone gives me milions of
dollars!
>
> On 7/12/19, Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> Hey
I know you like xp. Yes it works for you. If you keep on using it
you
>> are asking for trouble. I had to leave win 7 for that
reason! Now I;m on ten
>> I don’t like change any better then
some blind folk. But like it or not I
>> had to change. Both my
xp and 7 computers died.so I had no choice.
>>
>> Sent
from Mail for Windows 10
>>
>> From: zahra
>>
Sent: July 12, 2019 1:11 AM
>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>> Subject: Re:
[nvda] Lags With Notepad++
>>
>> xp is the best
operating system for me forever and i dont like newer
>> versions
of windows, i hate windows ten and cant use another operating
>>
systems!
>>
>> On 7/12/19, Perry Simm via
Groups.Io
>> <perry.simm@...>
wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> On Friday, July
12, 2019 4:49 AM, zahra <nasrinkhaksar3@...>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> notepad++ version 7.7 x86 on
windows xp, works perfectly with my
>>>> favorite version
of nvda, (nvda 2017.2).
>>> Goodness! Please be aware that
when you run XP and use the internet in
>>>
any
>>> way, not only are you asking for trouble but actively
begging for it.
>>> Whatever reasons you may be having, they
are most likely invalid.
>>> Cheers
Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
--
>> By God,
>> were I given all the seven
heavens
>> with all they contain
>> in order
that
>> I may disobey God
>> by depriving an
ant
>> from the husk of a grain of barley,
>> I would
not do it.
>> imam
ali
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are
You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana
boat!"
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
