Re: NVDA in Employment


Sky Mundell
 

Hello Eric. I can confirm exactly what you are saying. I work as an adaptive
technology specialist at Pacific Training Centre for the blind and we use
NVDA with our students, and we also do JAWS as well but on the computers we
have, as you said, JAWS sometimes work, it sometimes doesn't. NVDA, on the
other hand, has no problems at all. For instants, when I go and check for
updates on the computers at work JAWS says the word "blank" all the time
when I use the JAWS curser but NVDA has no problems with it and it doesn't
say blank all the time. Even updating JAWS doesn't help. I think part of it
is that IT departments think that if it is free, it isn't comparable to
JAWS, but, what we need to focus on is the why it is free. The reason why it
is free is to help those folks who couldn't fork out to buy an expensive
solution. That was why NVDA started out in the first place. Also, it has a
unique model in that you can donate. So, while your getting the product for
free, you can still donate to the product and keep it going. It isn't like a
software that is just free and has no way to donate. It's actually what I
would call it a donation baste product.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of erik
burggraaf
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2019 11:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in Emploandenp

Hi Kelby
On August 25, 2019 7:39:31 AM "kelby carlson" <kelbycarlson@gmail.com>
wrote:


I hope this isn't too off-topic. I recently heard an argument that NVDA is
bad for blind prospect's in employment because it is the "dumbed down"
solution.

That sounds like the blather of some one who recommended commercial screen
readers for 20 years and is now having their apple cart upset. I've seen
this time and time again and will keep seeing it as long as accessibility
is a thing. When some one has to use dirision rather than fact to steer
you away from one product and ttowards another, an alarm bell should shreek
in your head.

The person arguing this elaborated, saying that NVDA is not
customizable/flexible enough (too chatty"),

This is a matter of personal preference, but I can make NVDA do the common
things such as punctuation level that I sometimes need to configure.

that it was not able to be scripted as easily,

Now, I have heard argued the other point that NVDA is easier to scrypt than
jaws and I subscribe to this view. Consider, there are many more python
programmers in the world than jaws scripters. A company can script NVDA in
house using their own IT department. Otherwise, the company needs to
outsource jaws scripting to an access technology professional. The prices
I have seen quoted range from $500 per hour to $150 per line.
it didn't work well with as much proprietary software,

An argument that shows no understanding of access technology trends. It is
no longer the purview of a screen reader to work with particular software.
In the current and emerging model, an operating system creates
accessibility API's that comply with recognized standards. Screen readers
provide access using the API's and standards. Software manufacturers are
increasingly legally and socially obligated to comply with accessibility
standards and implement API's and ffeatures for accessibility provided by
the system. Employers are increasingly legally and socially obligated to
procure technology hardware and software that complies with accessibility
standards so that it can work with access technologies. NVDA has been
considered the most standards compliant screen rreader for several years as
far as I know,.

and that it wouldn't be allowed on secure environments due to being open
source.

Extrordinarily foolish. If open source software is insecure, why is it
powering the commercial internet? If commercial software is inherantly
secure, why do we need to spend billians of dollars protecting windows
against viruses? NVD'S licencing makes it time and cost efficient to
install across large networks such as call centre floors holding thousands
of computer workstations. If your corporate network is secure, than
running NVDA can't possibly be less secure than running say adobe reader,
which is a known constantly volnerable commercial product.

So my question is this: how many people here use NVDA for work,

I do. I'm a compuuter programming student working as a web application
developer for wholenote media in Toronto. I've experienced some of the
things members are saying about programming tools such as long delays using
intelisense. Not 30 seconds but finger-chompingly long lag. This is the
fault of software developers such as Microsoft for not complying with
standards or even properly implementing their own API's. At least, if you
want me to consider that there might be something in NVDA causing severe
lag in microsoft intelisense, how about giving us full access to xaml
designer, rad tools, and unit testing among other things. If ms could say
their product was up to snuff, then I'd consider that there's an
ineficiency in NVDA. Otherwise, autocomplete works well for me in browsers
and in VSCode though I haven't tried in notepadplusplus with the add on.
We can talk about it when visual studio becomes truly viable for
accessibility.

and is there a notable dilerence in level of usability with JAWS?

I couldn't speak to this. I haven't used jaws since the days of 4.5. I
have provided some computer training on jaws systems though and have
experienced significant frustration using google chrome, excel 2016,
windows 10 mail, and other things. In helping jaws users the last year or
so, I've seen an issue where displaying web content poops out. Jaws
scripts still have a bent for corrupting themselves and needing to be
re-installed. And they still haven't figured out how to deal with issues
such as laptops switching video cards for various power profiles and
ditching the authorization.

I was at the college last week getting set up for my fall semester classes.
When I sat down with my access technologist, a nondisabled college
employee, he imediately expressed frustration to me over use of jaws in the
college. He told me that in general nvda was working much better on
college systems than jaws, nvda is superior at the maths I have to do this
semester compared to jaws, and he thought for it's effectiveness, jaws was
way over priced. This is a complete turnaround from 2.5 years ago when I
was registering for courses. At that time, jaws was everything according
to this guy. He was extremely skeptical of NVDA and only implemented it
for me because I insisted. He was also dead set against mac and has had to
rethink that position too. :-)

I've told the story many times about going into the interview at the call
centre back in 16. It looked like they were gung hoe to hire me. Their IT
guy that I was working with said, "thank god you really wanted NVDA. Jaws
won't even load up on our systems for testing." He also told me they would
script NVDA in house using their python programmers. I didn't get hired,
but I don't think it had anything to do with equipment and resources.

Hope this helps,

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