1. nvda@nvda.groups.io

Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Gene
 

It doesn't matter what a web page element is for in terms of a sighted user.  The purpose of telling a blind student to use the check box is to help the student learn to recognize patterns on web pages and this is one pattern.  On a new page, where usual means don't work well, the student either learns to look at the page and find patterns such as this or the student flounders on any page that doesn't implement such things as move by headings as the blind person expects. 
 
A mailbox isn't placed at a certain part of a sidewalk to tell a blind person that the building he is looking for is to the right of the mailbox but what good blind traveler wouldn't use such a means of locating the building efficiently?  Intent, as to how a sighted person works is irrelevant.  How a blind person can use such elements and patterns is what is relevant.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

No.
I use the keyboard commands given by Gmail for use within their web app. J to go to the next conversation, K to go to the previous one. Enter opens a conversation, then N and P move to the previous or next message in that conversation. Its great so far. But then you get excess chatter, which simply slows the screen reader user down.
Sure, one can use the site in browse mode, finding good little tips to go from message to message, but it isn’t intuitive to teach a student to move by check box to get through messages, as that’s just not what check boxes are for, mainly. On the other hand, workarounds have to be used. Indeed, a screen reader is one big workaround. That doesn’t mean that screen reader manufacturers and web app devs should just accept that unneeded speaking of web page elements when navigating by keyboard commands is okay, or even desirable.

On Oct 7, 2019, at 9:51 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

So, how do you skip all that?  I don't use GMail on the Internet except to look at the spam filter now and then.  I am not familiar with the supplied short cuts.  But any time you want to jump from message to message, typing x in browse mode takes you to the check box for the next message.  You hear, as I recall, the subject line and the name of the sender.  
 
But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.
 
The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.  What is the last consistent line before the message text, or the synopsis, begins?  Find it by looking from the check box down on more than one message.  You will see a pattern.
Do a search for that line and you can then do the following:
x to move to the next message.
Repeat search, you have already searched once by entering the search string, then down arrow once and read to end.
After you do this enough to have it become second nature, it will be reasonably fast and efficient.
 
You can't be a good Internet user in more complex areas of a web page if you rely on what I refer to as "the kindness of strangers.", as is famously said by a character in A Street Car Named Desire.
 
The number of blind people, even those who are generally good computer users, who don't know how to do what I'm describing is clear evidence of the inadequate and poor training received.
 
I don't use web applications enough to discuss the general questions presented here, but GMail isn't a web application in the sense that Google Docx (spelling) is.  It is a layout but you aren't working with an application embedded in the page.
 
And you will see lots of times when doing things such as I describe is important for efficient navigation.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2019 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

On no, it says “Reply, reply all, forward…” all that, even if you use the keyboard commands to move to the next or previous message.

> On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:14 AM, Hope Williamson <hopeisjoyful@...> wrote:
> 
> There's no reason to leave out normal header information. In other words, the sender, date, time, and the fact that it's from you. If it's like the IP you're referring to, then that's different.
> 
> 
> 
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