Re: Are web applications that accessible?

Damien Garwood <damien@...>

Hi Robert,
Those are actually very interesting questions. I have theories, but that's all they are. I'm sure someone who is more expert on this topic will correct me if it turns out I'm wrong, which I'm sure I probably am.
The simple answer first. Announcements for several document elements (table headers, clickable items, links, headings etc) can be enabled or disabled through the document formatting section of the settings dialog. Other than that, the only way to really customise what is spoken by NVDA (such as changing control type text, changing spoken order etc) is through scripting.
Now for my theories. Scripting web app enhancements with NVDA wouldn't be as simple as making an app module for several reasons.
1. NVDA has its own internal stuff that allows it to do its browse/focus mode thing. This could interfere with web apps that you might think can be scripted as app modules (those packaged as executables like Skype and so on).
2. The web browser is just a host for the app, and so I'm guessing NVDA can't get to it the same way it gets to a standard desktop control. Even apps packaged as their own executables like Skype are actually using Chrome/Chromium/whatever it's called these days.
3. Bear in mind that different browsers have different rules for rendering controls and information, and so unfortunately it wouldn't be a uniform process.
Having said that. There are several accessibility API's that NVDA has, over the years, managed to smack under one umbrella. So I'm guessing that's only a matter of time before the same can be done for web browsers, and eventually, web apps.
As for profiles. My guess is that those can be used in the normal way for web apps that come as executables, but would be difficult to set up for external websites, for similar reasons. The profile would be triggered by the browser, not the app itself.

On 12/10/2019 07:21 pm, Robert Logue wrote:
1: Is it difficult for users to script NVDA for web applications?
2: Is there a standard way to customize what is spoken?
3: Does NVDA have a way to set up individual profiles for each web application?
On 2019-10-07 8:51 a.m., Gene wrote:
So, how do you skip all that?  I don't use GMail on the Internet except to look at the spam filter now and then.  I am not familiar with the supplied short cuts.  But any time you want to jump from message to message, typing x in browse mode takes you to the check box for the next message.  You hear, as I recall, the subject line and the name of the sender.
But there are ways of skipping unwanted material and the fact that they are not well known indicates poor training or poor training materials being widely used.
The find command is one of the most useful but under or unused feature.  What is the last consistent line before the message text, or the synopsis, begins?  Find it by looking from the check box down on more than one message.  You will see a pattern.
Do a search for that line and you can then do the following:
x to move to the next message.
Repeat search, you have already searched once by entering the search string, then down arrow once and read to end.
After you do this enough to have it become second nature, it will be reasonably fast and efficient.
You can't be a good Internet user in more complex areas of a web page if you rely on what I refer to as "the kindness of strangers.", as is famously said by a character in A Street Car Named Desire.
The number of blind people, even those who are generally good computer users, who don't know how to do what I'm describing is clear evidence of the inadequate and poor training received.
I don't use web applications enough to discuss the general questions presented here, but GMail isn't a web application in the sense that Google Docx (spelling) is.  It is a layout but you aren't working with an application embedded in the page.
And you will see lots of times when doing things such as I describe is important for efficient navigation.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Devin Prater <mailto:r.d.t.prater@...>
*Sent:* Monday, October 07, 2019 8:44 AM
*To:* <>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Are web applications that accessible?

On no, it says “Reply, reply all, forward…” all that, even if you use the keyboard commands to move to the next or previous message.

On Oct 7, 2019, at 8:14 AM, Hope Williamson <hopeisjoyful@...
<mailto:hopeisjoyful@...>> wrote:

There's no reason to leave out normal header information. In other
words, the sender, date, time, and the fact that it's from you. If it's like the IP you're referring to, then that's different.

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