Re: NVDA adding and changing settings


If an e-mail has been sent, the window closes and you are automatically placed where you were before you wrote, replied, to, or forwarded a message.  If a message isn't able to be sent, the program opens an error window which gains focus and you can't miss it.  Therefore, a sent announcement is unnecessary and presents no information that isn't obvious if you instruct the person in what to look for.  Also, learning how to derive information from context and behavior is important.  You won't always have someone explaining everything in every program and every new program.
But since you clearly indicate that sighted people get information when saving an already saved document again, this is a case where the screen-reader isn't presenting information that would be useful and that can't conveniently be inferred, as in the case of e-mail. 
And the idea that the developers got somehow that it can't be determined when copying and pasting take place is just plain wrong.  it isn't even debateable, it’s a matter of fact.  JAWS knows when, and System Access knows when.  I have specifically seen instances when copying didn't take place and no erroneous report was made.  I don't know how this myth that the developers persist in believing got started but it has never been true. 
Also, the NVDA add-on tells me accurately when copying and pasting takes place.  The person who wrote the add-on believes that it doesn't for some reason but I've been using it almost daily since it came out and I've almost never seen it make a mistake.
I'm making a point of this because, since this can be accurately determined, it should be incorporated into NVDA and not left to an add-on, which a lot of people will never know exist. 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2019 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA adding and changing settings

Just chiming in to give the visual perspective:
In Notepad, when pressing control+s:
- If the document has not been saved before, the "Save as" dialog appears and NVDA reports that.
- If the document has been saved previously, Notepad saves it, and NVDA does not say anything (unless you have speak command keys on, in which case NVDA reports "control+s").  Notepad does put an asterisk at the start of the filename in the title bar when a document has been edited.  This disappears when the document is saved.  NVDA does read this asterisk when reading the title bar.

In Word 365, when pressing control+s:
- If the document has not been saved before, a "Save this file" window appears and NVDA reports that.
- If the document has been saved previously and "AutoSave" is enabled, nothing happens and NVDA does not report anything (again unless speak command keys is on to report "control+s").  With AutoSave on, the document is saved every time any key is pressed so control+s is not needed.
- If the document has been saved previously and "AutoSave" is not enabled, the visual response is again subtle.  When you open a document, or save it, the title bar notes "Filename - Saved".  Once you change it, the "Saved" disappears.  This gets reinstated when you save it.  There is currently a known issue, I believe with the way Office is exposing the title bar.  See:

Similar to announcing cut, copied or pasted, reporting when a document is saved is not something we would be inclined to add to NVDA UNLESS we could be sure a document had been saved.  I can see the usefulness of the functionality for some users (it reminds me of how when teaching email, people often want confirmation that the email has been sent, but many email clients don't give that).  For this reason, I would recommend it might be useful functionality for an add-on.  Possibly Damien Garwood, developer of the ClipSpeak add-on, might be interested in adding it.

Kind regards


On Fri, Nov 8, 2019 at 6:14 AM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I checked, and the settings you are discussing are checked by default.  So people should hear this message in general.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2019 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA adding and changing settings

It should be spoken and if it isn't without changing NVDA settings, the problem should be corrected. 
Perhaps this is a problem using NVDA in Windows 10.  The message is spoken in Windows 7. 
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2019 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA adding and changing settings


If it is the message he wants to hear even though it is not spoken when in note pad and do the alt key + f4 key and get the message do you want to save which is not spoken.

he can do the following in nvdas settings under simple review cursor make sure it is checked and make sure simple review mode is checked.

If i want to hear the message when it comes up and says cancel save etc and it is not spoken out which does not worry me I can use object navigation to hear it in this case it is the nvda key + 6 on the numeric keypad then use nvda key + 4 tto go back to where the buttons are and save that way.

Some of the material that is not read out can be accessed with object navigation like this example.

If a document is already saved I do not need to hear it has been saved as I know it has been.

Gene nz

On 8/11/2019 7:40 am, Gene wrote:
Window-eyes says that because it is told by the developers, to say that word when that key combination is pressed.  it isn't analyzing an action by the word processor or text editor to know if a document was saved.  It is just saying the word.  That is bad design and Window-eyes probably says other things because the screen-reader is programmed to do so just because a certain key combination is pressed. 
Frankly, you are worrying excessively about almost nothing.  As I said, if you issue the save command twice, it is almost 100 percent certain that the document has been saved.  And to emphasize the point, all this time, you were saving documents and relying on Window-eyes to tell you that they were saved when actually, all it was doing was saying the word saved because it was programmed to when you pressed that combination.  But that shows how reliably your documents were being saved. 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2019 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA adding and changing settings

FYI: In Window-Eyes when pressing the control-s command it does say “save”. In NVDA the alt-f4 command is helpful. Another thought that occured to me is to go to the file name in the subdirectory and check the date and time last saved, especially if i want to continue editing the document.
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Grant – A.K.A. Grandpa DOS
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