Re: List Updates, Please Read #adminnotice

Kerryn Gunness <k_gunness@...>

thanks nimer

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2020 9:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] List Updates, Please Read #adminnotice

Hello everyone,

First, no matter where you are in the world, I do truly hope this message finds you well. You are all in my thoughts. I am hopeful that we will come out of this stronger and more resilient than before. If you wish to have a place to share your thoughts, please join our NVDA chat subgroup, or find someone to talk to. It is important that, during this time of physical distancing, we remember that it is still acceptable to reach out to others and be there for one another. If I can be there for you in any way, please send a message to and I will do what I can to help.

Second, I have observed a number of things this past few days that I wish to comment on:\
  • There have been some extraordinarily long threads this past week. This is not necessarily bad, however we should all keep in mind that this list has many members, and we should keep in mind that some places around the world do not have unlimited bandwidth.
    • Please try to read all messages to a thread before responding. This helps if you are using threaded mode, however if not, please read all messages before responding. If you do this, we can avoid many repetitive messages, and conflicting information, or answering questions which have been answered.
      • This is accepted practice on many mailing lists. Brian and I will begin pointing out where this occurs. Please do not take it personally, I am sure that all of us send rushed messages at times without looking at the entirety of a thread, however it is my hope that, by doing this, we can cut down the number of messages to a thread, cut down unhelpful messages, cut down repitive messages, and therefore hopefully make the archive of messages a much more useful place for individuals to seek answers from.
    • If you do not know the answer, please, please, please do not answer by saying you do not know the answer. Please do not answer with "Google it". Please provide substantive answers. If you wish to provide a link for someone to use to look up information, or a search term, this is acceptable, but please do not answer by simply saying you aren't sure, send the logs, etc.
    • Speaking of logs, we should avoid sending long logs to this list
      • Logs may contain personal information to your system, your set-up, or possibly keystrokes you press, etc.
      • It is not expected that users on this list will know how to read logs, or that they will disect those logs for you to determine the issue. Please reach out to NVAccess directly. No doubt there is already a process in place for this, however we shouldn't ask users to post logs to this list.
    • Please do not restart threads which have been closed, and please do not argue with moderators on list. If you would like to question a decision, send that comment to Please do not take offense if a thread is locked. As moderators, we have to balance allowing users to say what they wish with the balance of making sure that this list remains on point with what needs to be discussed.
  • This list is not a democracy.
    • A list member took liberties with questioning a moderator on a topic in public, and questioning why topics are locked. Let me be quite clear: It is not acceptable to question a moderator on list in respect of a thread being locked, or any other reason. If a thread is locked, this is not out of a desire to infringe on your rights... As participants on this list, you are bound by the terms of service. Furthermore, you are bound by any rules that I, the list owner, along with Brian, the list moderator, and NVAccess decide to impose. Even if the rule is something you disagree with. If you disagree with it, or you cannot abide by it, please unsubscribe. This isn't to say that policies we enact will be unreasonable, however it is your choice whether you are able to follow the rules imposed by an entity when you use a service or product that entity provides.
  • Brian continues to enjoy my full support as a moderator. This is not to say that we agree on all things, and this isn't to say that you need to agree with Brian or with me on all things. However, there is a right and wrong way to disagree.
    • Right way: Email and express your disagreement with clear reasoning. We will respond and provide our rationale. In the due course of conversation, we will come to understand one another, or we will modify prior messaging, and issue apologies as needed. Brian and I are human after all, and will make mistakes.
    • Wrong way: Post a message to the NVDA list, restart a locked thread, etc, expressing your displeasure at the moderators/owners of this list, NVAccess, or any other entity, and sighting what you believe is your right to post such messages, calling out moderators for wanting to take away your rights, being uncaring and unwilling to listen, etc etc. This is not acceptable because such messages go to a very large list who signed up to discuss NVDA, not list policy/your beliefs about your rights.

My hope is, you will read this message and accept that what I am saying is out of an intention to make this list a pleasant, useful place for everyone to participate in. If, however, you are reading something you disagree with, please send your displeasures to If you feel that this message, accompanied by the NVDA rules goes against what you believe is good list practice, you are welcome to leave and find another place to discuss NVDA-related topics, and/or start your own list.

Thank you everyone for making this list the great place it is for being a vehicle for NVDA-related discussions. I learn from all of you daily, as I know we all learn from one another.


Nimer Jaber

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