Re: Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10


I don't know how much time would be involved fixing it.  I would think there are far more serious behaviors, I don't know if they are bugs, caused by how this or that program may interact with NVDA.  For example, run Virtual Recorder Portable as modified by the late Carlos.  I suspect th4e unmodified program would do the same thing, but I know this one does.  I'll supply a download link if people want to test this.  When you run the program, every item in the dialog, which is the main interface, is read and you can't stop it.  if you leave the program and return to the window, every item is read again.  then, you can finally tab from item to item and hear them read as you land on them.  But it still doesn't work properly.  Let's say you tab three times quickly.  Each item will be read.  Speech isn't stopped.  its like a repetition of the first behavior but this time, limited to the items you tab through. 
I see this behavior in other places as well.  It may not be very common but I suspect it is common enough that since I've raised it, others will give examples. 
My question is, how much work would be involved in fixing the fantom window behavior and would that detract in any meaningful way from development or fixing more serious bugs or behaviors?
I'm not sure the sighted people don't have bugs standard is valid.  For one thing, Windows isn't designed to be used by screen-readers and it is a complex environment.  Many programs are complex environments and there is constant pressure to alter NVDA as Windows and programs change.  Getting rid of very small odd bugs like this may not be a good or remotely important activity.

----- Original Message -----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10

Hi Ron,
if you type those lines exactly as shown, chances of destroying
anything are minimal. In case you do somehow screw up in Python
Console, usually you can remedy the situation by simply restarting
NVDA. As a general rule, however, you had better know what you're
doing when you work in Python Console as you're manipulating NVDA at
its deepest levels.
I agree that it's a minor distraction. What I don't agree with in
principle, however, is that as screen reader users we should just
accept anomalies. Sighted users, for the most part, wouldn't. Software
is never perfect, and only a fool could believe it can ever be
bug-free, but still bugs are to be fixed before they become permanent
fixtures to be accepted as part of the lay of the land. This one is
definitely on the verge as far as I'm concerned.

Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 16:17 Uhr schrieb Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...>:
> Hi Felix,
> Thanks for confirming this issue. It's not the greatest distraction in
> the world, but it's been around for so long that I was wondering if
> everyone just got used to it or if it was just an issue of something I
> was doing.
> As far as the python import issue, that sounds like something you could
> really screw up if you weren't careful. I am not a programmer and I am
> wondering if I tried something like this I could destroy something.
> On 5/24/2020 6:42 AM, Felix G. wrote:
> > Hi!
> > That's exactly what it is. NVDA's focus tracking is slightly broken,
> > as I reported in 2018:
> >
> > The window is not actually still there, it's just that the active
> > window switches, and NVDA expects information about this new context
> > to be available within 500 ms which, on busy or slow machines, is not
> > always possible.
> > To investigate whether this bug is actually responsible, execute the
> > following statements in the Python console:
> > import watchdog
> > Then try the copy or move operation again and see if the ghost has
> > been exorcised.
> > Best,
> > Felix
> >
> > Am So., 24. Mai 2020 um 10:18 Uhr schrieb Rob Hudson
> > <rob_hudson3182@...>:
> >> I've noticed this ghost window also. I just hit tab and it usually goes away. It's usually a focus problem with the screen reader. Another time I've noticed ghost windows is if you are in the settings app invoked with win+i. If you exit it, sometimes, by invoking the say title, you hear something like, ShellExperieNceHost.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Ron Canazzi" <aa2vm@...>
> >> To:
> >> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 03:18:00 -0400
> >> Subject: Re: [nvda] Ghost Windows When Copying and Pasting or cutting and pasting in Windows Explorer In Windows 10
> >>
> >>> Hi Luke,
> >>>
> >>> I know the window is still there because as every experienced user of
> >>> any screen reader, if you press a keystroke or as in this case, if you
> >>> check to see if the file has appeared in the new location and if all you
> >>> hear when you press an up/down arrow key is 'blank,' then you press the
> >>> keystroke insert (NVDA) + T.    That's when I get the feedback such as
> >>> '87%' or 94%' or 100%'.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/23/2020 10:07 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
> >>>> On Sat, 23 May 2020, Ron Canazzi wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> 5. No longer how long I wait, the ghost window stays there until I
> >>>>> alt + tab away from the ghost window and then back. The window is
> >>>>> then gone until the next time I copy or cut a file.
> >>>> And, right there in step 5, would have been the perfect time to
> >>>> actually answer my question. Which was, again:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> How exactly do you know the window is still there?
> >>>> I can put that another way. What screen reader commands do you use
> >>>> that tell you the window is still there? What have you tried?
> >>>>
> >>>> Luke
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> >>> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> >>> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> --
> They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
> They ask: "How Happy are You?"
> I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

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