Re: Unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time

Sharni-Lee Ward

I might be interested in putting in my two cents on this topic. Shouldn't the NVDA community have a Discord server or something by now, though? Email lists are a bit old-school at this point.

On 8/08/2020 1:35 am, Gene wrote:
I don't know who is interested in the topic of what is announced during web page navigation but I'm going to start a topic on what is helpful and useful and what is just clutter on the chat list so those interested may want to join.  The chat list is a low traffic list.

-----Original Message----- From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2020 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time

It's a combination of user expectations, what document writers wrote, and specifications. In case of "figure/out of figure", it's more towards ARIA specs, how web authors wrote their sites 9including which framework is in use), and how NVDA got such an information.

-----Original Message-----
From: <> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time

I should clarify, based on what Brian said, that I don't object to the text being read in this instance or in general.  I object to figure and out of figure being announced . Just as I object to announcement of bloc quotes being on.  Its not the text being read I object to but people in general don't benefit from hearing such information.  It seems to me that the designers should consider what is useful infrmation in terms of navigating and in terms of what people generally use when determining what should be announced by default.  I don't know how they determine what is announced.

-----Original Message-----
From: Felix G.
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2020 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Unnecessary verbiage that wastes my time

I've been reading along and I know this feeling. I often refer to it as the user experience that nobody designed. On the one hand there's a screen reader developer, on the other there's an app developer or web designer. They don't know each other, and yet their decisions converge on our experience of their products. In the sighted world nobody would get away with it, but we get translations of translations, almost never what someone consciously designed.

Am Do., 6. Aug. 2020 um 17:58 Uhr schrieb Brian Vogel

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:34 AM, Gene wrote:

People would never put up with a human reader announcing all this clutter.

I'd say that's absolutely true, but they'd probably also expect a
human reader to say something about the fact that there is a
figure/image present and what it illustrates as a part of the reading,
unless the person their reading for has explicitly requested they only
read the main text.

I actually feel your pain, and have had exactly that same feeling
many, many times with multiple screen readers.  I hope that someday
there arrives AI sophisticated enough to screen read the way "your
average sighted person" would likely take in looking at content.
Heaven knows we virtually never look at scads of the navigation links
and the like at the outset, but the main page content first.

But at this point in time, since a screen reader itself has no idea,
really, of what it is you (any you) are looking for on a given page it
offers "way too much" rather than allowing you to possibly miss the
presence of something.

It would be nice if all of these sorts of things were arranged in "chunks"
of announcements that fit a certain class, and that you could have the
option of turning off the entire class with one checkbox, or going
through the individual things announced and unchecking the ones you
explicitly don't want while retaining the others.  And do I ever know
what a PITA that would be to code, and for the user to slog through,
but in any really complex system where a high level of customization
is wanted or needed, this is how its obtained.


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

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