Re: In-Process for 7th September is out
This is a long message but the gross and very many inaccuracies in the original message should be corrected. As I explain in my message, having accurate information is very important so blind people can make good choices about if and when to use various programs.toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
You may have had bad experiences with JAWS but your experience doesn't reflect the general one.
the reason adaptive software for profit is so expensive is that the user base is small and the costs of research and development are paid by a small user base. Other programs that serve a small or very small user base are also very expensive.
You can debate whether JAWS is too expensive but either way, it would be very expensive.
NVDA is largely developed by people making a very low wage, most ;programmers wouldn't work for it and they do so because they are dedicated to the cause, and a good deal of free work gets done.
If JAWS were as prone to problems and as just plain bad as you say, we would see questions and complaints constantly on lists, this isn't working, that doesn't work properly, why is JAWS working in demo mode, that would be a license problem, and so on.
Your account defies common logic and sense because we don't see such things. And where are the complaints of employees and employers, where reliability and productivity are important?
I used JAWS before there was an NVDA and it served me well. There was this or that bug, but in general it worked well and was reliable. I have no reason to believe that isn't the case any longer.
And, whether you know it or not, NVDA uses scripts so what is your point? There may be more people writing scripts for NVDA voluntarily but a racket? Why? Because people have the Gaul to charge for a valuable service? As Biden would say, "come on, man."
In short, both from my experience, which can be argued to be of old versions of JAWS but also just plain common sense and what I don't see on the blindness assistance lists I follow, I see nothing to support your very inaccurate claims and statements.
I won't discuss other things that are important to some JAWS users, such as the ability to have the user customize it without scripting, which can be used to tailor performance with many programs so additional scripts are unnecessary through the use of what JAWS calls frames. I won't discuss the screen echo all setting, which at times, presents useful or necessary information immediately without the need to customize anything. I used hyperterminal for years by simply changing the screen echo to all and I didn’t have to customize a thing.
None of this is to lessen the importance or value of NVDA. But JAWS is important for enough people that it matters that it is around and people should have good information about both screen-readers so that if they want to try or use JAWS for some reason, they won't be discouraged from doing so. Also, for demanding users, it is a good idea to have more than one full screen-reader on a machine even if one is a demo. At times, I use a JAWS demo for some purpose where NVDA doesn't do something well or not at all. I would imagine that if I primarily used JAWS, I would find times where JAWS didn't do something as well or nearly as well as NVDA. As I said, it is important that screen-reader users have accurate information so they may be much better able to make good choices in what they use and how.
From: Shaun Everiss
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2020 2:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out
Hmph, if you are happy to pay a load of cash for each version update from freedomscientiffic or visparo etc thats your issue, have issues with licences, need scripts for just about everything like win98 needs drivers, are happy with the possible bad technical support issues going about and are happy that if it screws up you need to repair, reinstall or reformat if it totally goes nuts, not to mention that visparo like suing everyone under the sun well more than I'd like, go ahead.
When I used their stuff it was ok, but yeah, I never really had that many problems with it.
Never got into the payed script racket, either.
I had to repair it once or twice, but that was before it became a beast.
Compaired to nvda well who knows.
The information bandied round the list pluss a few other user experiences not my own pluss the fact that due to jaws and issues causing me to have to reformat to make them completely quit, but mostly information on here pluss what I hear from time to time, especially with how they got all the competing companies bar dolphin and that probably because they only just moved out of using internet explorer puts the impression on me that like microsoft used to be and may still be that this is a monopoly I would really like to see the back of.
I certainly am happy I no longer use their software, and unless I got a job which is what jaws is bandied about by various governments and stuff, I wouldn't touch it unless I had the cash.
To be hhonest this goes for dolphin stuff which is why I got in the beta program but that was for a completely selfish reason that being smuglers, its about all I care about now days.
To be honest, I don't much care for a company who is clearly running a business for the charity, government and enterprise market with prices to high for average users to buy, and needing expensive upgrades and modules for remote access with specialised blindy bits and bobs.
Nvda and things like narator have opened me to the mainstream, and with mainstream devices like the amazon echo devices and smart phones about, when the new normal comes along, I think some of these things will fall away sharply.
Dolphin seems to recognise this, so does avast.
So does nvaccess which is why I use them for most of my stuff.
Now there are a few things nvda does not do, but everything has its limits.
But if you plan to use a wordprocesser, a desktop app, a web brouser or email client or any office app or app using standard controls or terminals then you don't need jaws for that.
Now some of the mega custom apps and the like specialised programs, will need specialised software, and yeah, jaws is what you need and will always need.
Thats not nvda's job.
The job of nvda is to handle all the normal business and home applications that use standard controls, and the like as well as web interfaces.
To be honest that is what may happen, specialised software will need specialised software, and will be charged accordingly.
The only reason I'd get jaws is leasy thats about the only reason I'd buy jaws now.
And to be honest if leasy would just sell its games module then I'd just buy that.
On 7/09/2020 12:55 pm, Ron Kolesar wrote:
Here’s hoping it would make the Microsoft Flight simulator 2020 program more accessible.
Unlike it’s predecessor FSX, FS 2020 is not accessible for we who need to see with our ears.
Even though, all throughout the newsletters and you tube tutorials, it does have accessibility if your sighted.
This in short isn’t fair.
So, here’s hoping the newer upgrade to NVDA is more accessible for we blind flight simmer pilots.
Even though, in my opinion, JAWS is a much better program.
Just my opinion.
Ron Ham Radio and Emergency Communication Station KR3DOG
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 19:57
Subject: [nvda] In-Process for 7th September is out
In-process is out, this week with news on the upcoming NVDACon, a new accessible graphs project, a space-themed accessible RPG and some general tips on making software accessible: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-7th-september-2020/
Training and Support Manager
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
In the good old days of Morse code Shorthand, 73's AKA Best Regards and or Best Whishes,From
Volunteer Certified Licensed Emergency Communications Station
Volunteer Certified Licensed Ham Radio Station
With the Call Sign of KR3DOG