Re: Touch interaction off and on


 

Hi,
No need to do that - because NVDA+D is coming from an add-on (specifically, a global plugin), it will override NVDA+D command assigned in browse mode. This may not be the case in 2021, and for that, you can simply add NVDA+D as a gesture (via input gestures dialog) for toggling touch interaction. However, I advise against removing NVDA+D from browse mode because it will introduce confusion in the long term - you may come across a situation where long description of images would be helpful, and if you do remove NVDA+D from browse mode, there's no way to read it. If you are going to assign a command for toggling touch interaction, I advise looking into shortcuts that are easy to remember and doesn’t conflict with various NVDA functions (including ones coming from add-ons you are using).
An interesting approach for solving this dilemma is creating a manually activated configuration profile that will disable touch interaction altogether. You can even assign a dedicated command to activate this profile if you choose. But then we return to the starting point: you must find a shortcut that is easy to remember/use and doesn’t conflict with existing NVDA shortcuts.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

OK so how do I remove the insert d command for browse mode and reassign it to touch interaction.


On 11/26/2020 12:37 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
Let me answer both questions in one sitting:
To Don: NVDA+D is a tricky gesture - it is easy to invoke, but that's not why it is tricky. It is tricky because NVDA+D is used in browse mode to find out if an image has long description. That's why I do not assign commands to add-on features that I know will conflict with NVDA in all sorts of scenarios (including other add-ons).
To Gene: when I submitted touch interaction toggle pull request (subsequently accepted), I advised NV Access to not assign keyboard commands to toggle touch interaction, knowing that you can do so from NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction panel. Another reason was to avoid future command conflicts, as we are a bit closer to exhausting easy to remember/use keyboard shortcuts. In a follow-up pull request (accepted after mine was integrated into NVDA), another contributor pointed out that it would be best to provide a keyboard shortcut to toggle touch interaction, and people felt that a combination that's a bit harder to press would send a message that one must be truly willing to toggle touch support to prevent accidentally turning off touch interaction support.
Part of my initial pull request and my advice to NV Access stems from Enhanced Touch Gestures. For a number of years, the add-on did come with a possibility to toggle touch interaction, but I intentionally didn't assign a keyboard command to do that because there was rarely a need to toggle touch support, even for a few seconds just for the purpose of passing on touch gestures directly to the app the user is using. I also made it so that touch support was a profile-specific setting, meaning that one can create an app-specific profile to turn off touch support for an app that does provide its own touch support facility (I believe both the users list and NVDA add-ons list had a discussion about this a few years ago, and I remember actively participating in it). In other words, the initial pull request that did introduce touch interaction toggle in NVDA 2020.3 came directly from Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on, with a follow-up work done by another person that added a keyboard shortcut to toggle this, and I modified the add-on to take this into account. Because NVDA 2020.3 includes touch interaction toggle facility, there's no need for Enhanced Touch Gestures add-on to duplicate this functionality, therefore the add-on will be modified (actually, it was modified but is sitting in my development lab) in 2021 to absolutely require NVDA 2020.3; once that's done, the scope of the add-on will be reduced significantly but it will still retain features such as web navigation mode and synth settings mode (and in the future, possibly asking someone else to take care of the add-on in hopes of reducing my workload; trust me, when you maintain dozens of add-ons, it can create headaches).
Hope this clarifies many things (do let me know if you have questions or comments).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

When you say control alt insert t, does that mean control alt insert or control alt NVDA key? In any default use, control alt NVDA key is very unpleasant to use. Even if I have shift set to work as an NVDA key, I still use my thumb and little finger for control and alt, my little finger on control and my thumb on alt. It is the only way I can free fingers to be able to press capslock. And unless using the caps lock, I see no way of activating that command using insert as the actual insert key, either num;pad insert or on a keypad.

Isn't there some far better alternative such as a function key and t like f6 t, for example?

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

fact is I would rather have insert d for toggling rather than control alt insert t

On 11/26/2020 11:52 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. The thing is, NVDA+D doesn't work on my system even with
Enhanced Touch Gestures 20.09 (latest version) installed, so I'm
thinking this is unique to your commands set up. If NVDA+D works on
your system in 2021 (after the next Enhanced touch Gestures add-on
version shows up), I'll take a look at what's up (it doesn’t mean I'm
closing this issue right away).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:49 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

The control alt insert t is shown and in fact it does work to toggle
touch interaction however insert d also still works.

On 11/26/2020 10:33 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi,
I see. Can you try:
1. Go to NVDA menu/Preferences/Input gestures.
2. Expand "Touch screen" category.
3. Go through the list of commands and look for duplicates or toggle
command. Or, to be specific, look for "toggles support for touch
interaction" and expand it.
4. You should see NVDA+Ctrl+Alt+T listed. If you see another command
listed, remove it, as toggling touch support through Enhanced Touch
Gestures add-on will be completely removed in 2021.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 8:27 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I have version 20.09 of the enhanced touch gestures installed and the
insert d still works to toggle off and on touch interactions

On 11/26/2020 10:21 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi all,
I had an offlist conversation with Don about it, so I can give
weight to this discussion.
I bet this might have to do with the version of Enhanced Touch
Gestures one is using. The fact that NVDA+D doesn't work when the
add-on is disabled speaks volume to this hypothesis. Besides, in an
upcoming version of Enhanced Touch Gestures, the add-on specific
command to toggle touch interaction will be removed in favor of
NVDA's way of doing it (speaking of which, you can toggle touch
interaction in NVDA 2020.3 in two ways: Control+Alt+NVDA+T, or going
to NVDA menu/Preferences/Settings/Touch interaction).
Cheers,
Joseph



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:57 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Touch interaction off and on

I am running the latest release of NVDA on a win 10 20h2 system. In
the past the hot key for turning toch interaction on and off was insert d.
I am told that this should no longer work however on my system
insert d still turns touch interaction off and on. Is this key
combination still working for you? The current hot key is supposed
to be control alt insert t which I find to be a really difficult key
combo for my old fingers.













































Join nvda@nvda.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.