Re: Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav


Gene
 

For clarity and a more complete discussion, I'll add that you also can't move to the right to another object while in the Notepad document window. You can, however, move to the left to another object and then farther to the left to other objects. You can move from the document window to the next object to the left which is the application menu, then move down into it and move to the right by object to see all the menu objects. Each menu is a different object.
You can have the student open a doccument in Notepad and demonstrate how the entire document is one object and you can use NVDA object review keys to move through the document by line, by word, and by carachter. Showing in this way the vastly different sizes of objects and how to move through an object as well as to different objects is the kind of concrete experience I have in mind that will allow the student to develop a conception of how to work with objects and on a concrete level, what they are.

I'm not particularly concerned with what programs are used, as long as they are good for teaching and demonstration. I used Notepad because that is a good program, and a very commonly used program so everyone will have it and can practice with it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 10:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

I don't know how the training material available for purchase teaches object
navigation. I strongly believe that for most people, while a little
explanation is helpful, beyond talking about something being inside of
something else, and giving examples of an object, that it may be as large as
an entire document or as small as a button or check box or other control,
beyond that the best way to teach it is with very concrete examples and
concrete steps.

For example, open notepad, and then give precise directions for movement so
the student can see how he is moving. For example, you are now in the
document wwindow. If you move to the object to the left, you will be at
whatever. If you move to the object to the right, you will be at whatever,
If you move up to the higher object, you will be wherever. If you try to
move down into another object while in the document window, you can't,
because there isn't one. You move to an object, then down into it if you
want to work with it. You can use analogies, finding a shoe, then putting
it on, for example. Each object can be moved through if the object contains
more than one thing, and each object can be moved in and out of either up,
down, to the left, and to the right. In order to move out of an object,
there must be another object to move into and it can be very easily
demonstrated that NVDA will tell you if there is no object in the direction
you are moving.

I learned object navigation mostly by moving around as I described and
seeing where I was. I looked at just a little explanation and found
anything more than that to be meaningless and confusing, actually, it might
have been discouraging if I hadn't had enough experience to know that I
could learn as I described and thus applied that method. Somepeople can
learn that way mostly on their own, a lot of people can't but I believe
that, if directed, they could learn well that way in this context.

This is something where the actual experience is important and where
abstract description serves few people well other than as a general
framework such as I described above. As far as particular programs and apps
are concerned, I haven't used enough to give a lot of exazmples, but any
simple program like Notepad furnishes an excellent introduction if taught
well.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Deborah Armstrong
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2020 9:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Seeking recommendations for app to practice object nav

I had so much fun preparing two "thunderclaps" for Nvda-Con, I decided I
want to do a tutorial on object nav that approaches it differently than
previous efforts. Hopefully it can be something for next year's con.

Anyway, I mostly use object nav with in-house software for my job, so I need
to find something free that makes good practice material. Something that
really lets you exercise all the ins and outs of navigating objects.

Does anyone have a recommendation for software or a Windows 10 app that is
completely accessible if you use object nav and mouse clicking to work with
its features?

--Debee

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