Re: add-on for accessing the system tray


Gene
 

That simply isn't true and I have been around my share of blind windows users. If you know that you press enter to do things like play a file, or open something in a list, you can do that and not know you are executing a double left click. Indeed, on further reflection, you aren't. The purpose of a double left click is to first select something, then click it. In the case of moving in lists and tree views, the act of movement with the arrow keys selects something, thus performing the first click. When you press enter, you are performing the second click. Thus, what I stated, on further reflection, that enter is a double click is questionable as a generalization. You can't select and open something that isn't already selected by pressing enter. You can't take any action in a list or some other structures where you first click to select something then click to take an action on the selected item. You can press enter as often and as quickly as you like on an unselected item in a list and nothing will happen. Thus, I don't know how enter is defined as a Windows command. It appears to change with context. In the system tray, it is double click. In a list it isn't.

Most blind windows users simply do not know or care about these kinds of distinctions. They are taught to press enter to take an action after you select it with the arrow keys. they are not taught whether they are double or single clicking nor that what enter does appears to change with the context.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] add-on for accessing the system tray

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 08:54 PM, Gene wrote:
Most blind Windows users do not know that enter is the equivalent of a left double clicck, that space is equivalent of a left single click and that opening the context menu with the context menu key is equivalent to a right mouse click. this simply isn't tought consistently to blind people in general and it is this specific knowledge that is necessary to use the system tray directly.-
Gene, plain and simple, I call BS! I have been around screen reader users for well over a decade now, ranging in age from under 15 years old up through individuals in their 80s. They absolutely do know these things, as a matter of routine, or they'd be unable to function with a screen reader.

You don't have to be explicitly taught, instructed, etc., to figure out certain things you need to know on your own. Though I will never deny that instruction helps. I'm just not seeing these broad swaths of unaware individuals.

I'm not new to this dance, and your assertions are in direct contradiction to my observations and experience since 2010. Your endless plaint that screen reader users cannot be expected to know the very basics of screen reader use is just not borne out in the real world, except in the case of complete neophytes, and that is not the bulk of the demographic that is here on this group, nor on any screen reader user group. And those who do identify themselves as neophytes, which they need to do when they are, tend to get a lot more guidance and patience than would be warranted otherwise.

And I am completely out of patience with your endless insistence that the complete neophyte or the completely unaware are the common denominator. They are not.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

~ Thomas Reed Powell

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