Re: add-on for accessing the system tray


Gene
 

After this message, I will have said everything I have to say on the topic. I won't comment further. If you or others want to comment, I'll read comments with interest but anything more I would say would be repetition.

On further reflection, the function of enter varies with the context. In the system tray, it is left double click. Clearly, it isn't in lists and tree views. You can press enter as often and as quickly as you want on an unselected item in a list and nothing will happen. In a list, you select something by moving to it with the arrow keys or by pressing the space bar. You then activate it by pressing enter. With the mouse, you click once to select, then click again to have the selected item take an action. You don't have to know these things to do a great deal in Windows as a blind person. You need to know that you select something in a list by moving to it and press enter. Most people do not know what I am talking about when it comes to enter having different functions depending on context. And they don't know that in the system tray enter is double click or what the other commands I've mentioned do in the system tray.

Also, I don't have the endless plaint you speak of nor the common denominator position you state, but those things have nothing to do with the discussion. Either most blind people know what I am saying about the system tray and how enter varies depending on context or they don't.

I didn't bring up the system tray documentation to generalize or discuss other questions. I am discussing the system tray and documentation. My point is that the manual should include a brief discussion on how to use the real system tray. the system tray dialog has buttons for doing these things. Most people don't know the system tray commands.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 9:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] add-on for accessing the system tray

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 08:54 PM, Gene wrote:
Most blind Windows users do not know that enter is the equivalent of a left double click, that space is equivalent of a left single click and that opening the context menu with the context menu key is equivalent to a right mouse click. this simply isn't thought consistently to blind people in general and it is this specific knowledge that is necessary to use the system tray directly.-
Gene, plain and simple, I call BS! I have been around screen reader users for well over a decade now, ranging in age from under 15 years old up through individuals in their 80s. They absolutely do know these things, as a matter of routine, or they'd be unable to function with a screen reader.

You don't have to be explicitly taught, instructed, etc., to figure out certain things you need to know on your own. Though I will never deny that instruction helps. I'm just not seeing these broad swaths of unaware individuals.

I'm not new to this dance, and your assertions are in direct contradiction to my observations and experience since 2010. Your endless plaint that screen reader users cannot be expected to know the very basics of screen reader use is just not borne out in the real world, except in the case of complete neophytes, and that is not the bulk of the demographic that is here on this group, nor on any screen reader user group. And those who do identify themselves as neophytes, which they need to do when they are, tend to get a lot more guidance and patience than would be warranted otherwise.

And I am completely out of patience with your endless insistence that the complete neophyte or the completely unaware are the common denominator. They are not.

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

~ Thomas Reed Powell

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