Re: How is verbosity decided


Contrary to what you say, I am willing to consider other opinions. You keep saying I am unreasonable. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I am unreasonable. I don't expect you to agree and I don't say you are unreasonable when you don't.

I think a good compromise might be a command that would turn a lot of verbosity off for those who want to do so easily and conveniently while leaving things as they are by default.

And NVDA has made significant changes before, such as redesigning the settings menu and making it a settings dialog.

I've seen lots of surveys about peoples' preferences and use of screen-readers. I've never seen one about the question of verbosity in browse mode or the Virtual PC cursor. This question is relevant to users of other screen-readers as well. And if the defaults are left as they are, such a survey could provide a means to determine what should be changed if there were a command to change verbosity.


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How is verbosity decided

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 10:27 AM, Gene wrote:
We don't know if the amount of verbosity is what people want or not.-
True. But I have said, and will say again, that in regard to default settings of long standing, tweaking those "mid-stream" is madness. And I have seen such madness "from both sides."

The old saying, "You don't jump off a horse mid-stream," applies. Whether what exists now is what any given individual, or even a huge group of individuals, prefers is not really relevant. It's a known quantity, and changing it (with the exception of the figures bit, which I've acknowledged that issue) is easily within the power of any individual user.

I was a software developer, and learned the very hard way that changing defaults on something that had well-known defaults that had been in place for years, is a very, very, very, very bad idea. Period. That's an entirely different thing than new features and their defaults.

I can only imagine the havoc that would be wrought were a user survey, which involves a self-selected sample, to result in NVAccess twiddling the Document Formatting settings in a way that is significantly different than the way they always have been. Think about just how insane that choice would be, and how many users would be entirely lost and confused because "what I'm used to" is no longer what they get on new installs or portable copies. That matters, and matters far more now with an established product, than it does for something just coming out the door.

But, we're back to disagreement and mostly because you simply cannot and will not ever step outside your own perspective, regardless of what others have offered suggesting it would be a great idea to try that. I have articulated, and very clearly, why I think what you propose is an absolutely horrible idea and should not ever be considered. Leave well-enough alone and let the individual users tweak as they see fit.

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next. We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner

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