Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice


I think Arlene was just trying to say that Brian doesn't instruct like
most sighted folks. The context of the message bears that out, I

Full moon. It hsows. Last of 2020. Ow-oo. Happy New Year, all.

On 12/30/20, Gary Metzler <> wrote:
Very well said.

From: <> On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Hello Arlene,

I would like to challenge your message and thinking a little bit. I am
posting publicly, because it is an important topic. While you seem to be in
support of Brian, I couldn't help but notice that you stated that Brian
doesn't sound "blind".

What does a blind person sound like? Is it really necessary to judge people
as sounding a certain way? Isn't it better if we choose to not judge, not
have preconceived notions which divide us and put barriers between us? Isn't
the rest of the world already divided? Should we not model, as a community,
the very definition of non-discrimination? That is my ideal, anyway, my hope
in writing this message. We all are human beings. We all are beautiful,
unique souls. The things that bring us together should be the things we
honor and acknowledge. Brian brings so many strengths to the table as a
moderator, we should all appreciate those things about Brian that makes him
the wonderful individual that he is. Same goes for anyone else on this list.
We all have struggles, we all have cultural differences, we all have
differing opinions on politics and whatever else, but at the end of the day,
every single one of you are all beatutiful, human souls, regardless of your
physical characteristics.

For me, I welcome anyone on this list, and as a moderator, without regard to
any physical, religious, sex, etc characteristics, and I urge everyone to
drop your preconceived notions as to who any of us are, and focus please, on
the things that bring us together, and celebrate those things that make us

Thank you everyone for the support you are showing Brian.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM Arlene <
<> > wrote:

I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I thought
you were blind like us. Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a good
advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers. You know how
they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a blind user.
I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see. The person said
Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said that screen reader
helps me help you see the screen. He tried to tell me to click a green box.
Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how to talk like us blind
users. She told the person on the phone that I don’t see. He felt like a
fool! This screen reader was NVDA. I don’t know if this is true. This
friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She described that it
interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted person. Some of
the key commands are similar to Jaws. Even my food safe tutor said the NVDA
screen reader looks more like windows. He had full sight.

Sent from Mail <> for Windows

From: Brian Vogel <>
Sent: December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
To: <>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Rosemarie and Arlene,

I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and particularly
for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am sighted. I do
mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on any of the blind
technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe I am trying to
impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can or do know, a in
lived experience sense, what it is to be blind. I've simply worked with
blind technology and individuals who are blind and visually impaired for
quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful lot.

But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part, much
of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact that I
see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone else does.
There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and it makes
perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is. But when it's not
germane to the conversation it just isn't.

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to
overturn the votes certified by 4 states:] Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling,
but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.
We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan
and John Boehner



Nimer Jaber

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