Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice

Nimer Jaber

Hello Shaun,

I had trouble following your message, but I think your message goes against everything I said. What your experience is of course matters, and is legitimate, but it doesn't help you move past your stereotypes. I believe that each interaction should be viewed as unique, and personally, I've had just as many issues with blind people as I have with non-blind people. Same kinds of issues, too. So from my perspective, it is important to take each interaction as an opportunity to learn from someone, to grow, and to not bring up a long history of how it is wrong to not accept a sighted person's instructions. So for me, I welcome Brian's instruction, and anyone else that comes on this list, without the verbiage of their sight or lack of it.

Thanks everyone for this discussion. Ordinarily, I would say that this should be moved to the chat list, but maybe we'll keep it going for a bit longer, as it seems like an important dialog to be having.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 2:21 PM Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:
I couldn't have said it better.

On 12/30/2020 11:54 AM, Nimer Jaber wrote:
> Hello Arlene,
> I would like to challenge your message and thinking a little bit. I am
> posting publicly, because it is an important topic. While you seem to be in
> support of Brian, I couldn't help but notice that you stated that Brian
> doesn't sound "blind".
> What does a blind person sound like? Is it really necessary to judge people
> as sounding a certain way? Isn't it better if we choose to not judge, not
> have preconceived notions which divide us and put barriers between us?
> Isn't the rest of the world already divided? Should we not model, as a
> community, the very definition of non-discrimination? That is my ideal,
> anyway, my hope in writing this message. We all are human beings. We all
> are beautiful, unique souls. The things that bring us together should be
> the things we honor and acknowledge. Brian brings so many strengths to the
> table as a moderator, we should all appreciate those things about Brian
> that makes him the wonderful individual that he is. Same goes for anyone
> else on this list. We all have struggles, we all have cultural differences,
> we all have differing opinions on politics and whatever else, but at the
> end of the day, every single one of you are all beatutiful, human souls,
> regardless of your physical characteristics.
> For me, I welcome anyone on this list, and as a moderator, without regard
> to any physical, religious, sex, etc characteristics, and I urge everyone
> to drop your preconceived notions as to who any of us are, and focus
> please, on the things that bring us together, and celebrate those things
> that make us unique.
> Thank you everyone for the support you are showing Brian.
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:32 AM Arlene <nedster66@...> wrote:
>> I had no clue you can see. The way you talk like the blind users. I
>> thought you were blind like us.  Well, keep up the good work. You’d be a
>> good advocate for blind users who have to fight with isp providers.  You
>> know how they say click here or there. They have no clue that you are a
>> blind user.  I’ve encountered someone who had no clue that I don’t see.
>> The person said Oh don’t listen to the screen reader listen to me. I said
>> that screen reader helps me help you see the screen.  He tried to tell me
>> to click a green box. Just then a sighted friend who happened to know how
>> to talk like us blind users.  She told the person on the phone that I don’t
>> see.  He felt like a fool! This screen reader was NVDA.  I don’t know if
>> this is true. This friend said that NVDA looks more like windows. She
>> described that it interacts more like you would see windows like a sighted
>> person.  Some of the key commands are similar to Jaws.  Even my food safe
>> tutor said the NVDA screen reader looks more like windows.  He had full
>> sight.
>> Sent from Mail <> for
>> Windows 10
>> *From: *Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
>> *Sent: *December 30, 2020 9:29 AM
>> *To: *
>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read
>> #adminnotice
>> Rosemarie and Arlene,
>>             I just wanted to thank you for your kind words, and
>> particularly for your saying you'd forgotten or not known that I am
>> sighted.  I do mention this occasionally because I do not want anyone, on
>> any of the blind technology groups on which I participate, to ever believe
>> I am trying to impersonate a blind person nor making any claim that I can
>> or do know, a in lived experience sense, what it is to be blind.  I've
>> simply worked with blind technology and individuals who are blind and
>> visually impaired for quite a few years now and that's taught me an awful
>> lot.
>>             But it's very nice to know that, at least for the most part,
>> much of what I now write in these venues reads in such a way that the fact
>> that I see is not at all readily obvious unless I bring it up or someone
>> else does.  There are times where the fact that I can see is relevant, and
>> it makes perfect sense for that to be mentioned when it is.  But when it's
>> not germane to the conversation it just isn't.
>> --
>> Brian *-* Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042
>> [Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas
>> to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:]  *Pleased with the SCOTUS
>> ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train
>> goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.*
>>          ~ Brendan Buck, *former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul
>> Ryan and John Boehner*


Nimer Jaber

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