Re: Admin's Notes Re List Conduct, Please Read #adminnotice


I agree with you dale.

For me you here what others say mostly.

I don't have the answers.

And as for sheltered workshops, yeah I am against those to or at least I was.

As much as our government says there are jobs, if the normals have issues getting em then any disabled person has a harder time of it even if he or she is white which I am.

Point is, they feed you on all sorts of stuff saying you will succeed when in reality being helpless while not nice was probably better than knowing you had no where to go.

Thats what I found out the hard way 20 years back.

A sheltered workshop, yeah, I don't want to be lumped into a disabled warehouse or a home for the stereotipical disabled, but that was 20 years ago.

I'd be happy if I went there now.

The normal world left me behind in 2010 and maybe slightly before that, and as far as I care I don't owe it any favors.

If I didn't have a family, I'd be with the rest in the warehouse.

Who knows by the time they die off I will probably be ready to join them.

I know a lot of people without a job or steady income.

I know a few exceptions but you need to be in the right place and time.

As for touch devices.

Its something I'd like to do, but my spacial awareness just isn't good enough for me to use them even though I tried with an iphone 6 a few times.

I couldn't input my security code even though I tried and the phone locked up so I took it in to get it reset then it got taken away and thats it.

Not sure but maybe I am a generation out at least thats what I tell myself.

On 31/12/2020 6:14 pm, Dale Leavens wrote:
I just want to add how sad I feel that this topic has come up at all and that it has persisted so long and yet here I am adding to it.

Over my 7 decades as a blind man the one consistent observation I continue to experience is that atitude of the blind that blindness related employment should be provided preference to blind candidates rather than the most capable and/or competent persons.  Often these are the same sort who would object to sheltered workshops but really what is the difference?

The Windows environment and mouse access is never a system blind persons would ever have created so as a result if we intend to access the technology it will of necessity be a question of compromise.

Similarly if we as blind persons were to create cities we wouldn’t use coloured lights as signals but if we are to function and participate we will have to adapt.  We probably want seeing persons to orient us to such environments too.  Certainly I do.

I was a long time believing that a touch screen device like the iPhone could ever be accessible and if so even practical however it is now pretty well exclusively my device for interaction with the world but this is the exception.

I recently acquired a large air filter which is touch screen and totally inaccessible.  Similarly our kitchen range is hardly accessible but with markings we are getting by.

More to the point it was a sighted daughter which made access possible.

We have three seeing kids, one girl has made most of her teaching career teaching children with behavioral issues although she is not so afflicted.  Our other daughter is a teacher of the visually impaired and has recently become certified as a orientation and mobility instructor.  I don’t see how her vision should disqualify her for those functions and I would propose her background with blind parents might actually contribute to her suitability.

Now retired, I was a physiotherapist in a variety of settings primarily interested in acquired brain injury.  Not everyone felt I was suitable for the role but once I made my way into advanced courses it was soon understood that blindness gave me some advantages and some disadvantages, just as others in the programmes had strengths and weaknesses.

What is my point?

This topic demonstrates that prejudice is live and well in the blindness community just like in the general population.

I don’t really know what Brian’s role is in the NVDA project but I hope it is his competence we judge him by.


Dale Leavens
Cochrane Ontario Canada
Come visit our polar bears!

On Dec 30, 2020, at 11:44 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:25 PM, Gene wrote:
Gently encouraging it is one thing but I think going beyond that isn't a good idea.
And whether we're talking about children, or adults, one generally only gets what one expects or demands.

I am not here, or anywhere, to "gently encourage" as my primary mode of operation.  Most people don't need "gentle encouragement," but those who clearly do get it and have gotten it from me.  Those who expect to be spoon-fed, and they do pop up occasionally, need to be promptly disabused of the notion that this is OK, anywhere.

And it is not unreasonable to demand, not request, but demand, that participants on any venue where archives exist know how to reference them and, if they don't, make acquiring that skill a priority.  Nor is it unreasonable to expect that members in a venue such as this one be a little proactive on their own behalves. If you see the answer to a question that you think you'll need at some point in the future, then please file that somewhere, don't ask the same question the next day or next week.  Or, better yet, if you recall you've seen it then ask about how you can find that question on the archives rather than asking the question again.  You can learn something, and so can many others reading, that is not learned via the regurgitating something just answered.

Learn how to use the magnificent features that this platform gives you such as the Mute this Topic link when a topic goes on longer than you'd like and you've lost interest.  Or the Reply to Sender link to take things off-group when that's appropriate.  Or setting up topic-preview if you're overwhelmed by the volume of email from any given group you participate on.  (See:  Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from [docx format])  I'm quite sure that there are many tired of this topic and, if they are, they should hit that "Mute this topic" link to keep from getting any more messages from this topic.

Each and every message sent is going out, as of this evening, to 1440 people, and that's an actual imposition on their time.  Everyone should be considering this before each and every post they make.  I did before making this one, but a great deal of the information in it allows them to control their own group e-mail destiny, so it's worth it.

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

[Regarding the Supreme Court refusing to hear the case brought by Texas to overturn the votes certified by 4 states:Pleased with the SCOTUS ruling, but also immediately slightly terrified of where this crazy train goes next.  We should know by now there’s a bottomless supply of crazy.

        ~ Brendan Buck, former adviser to Speakers of the House Paul Ryan and John Boehner 


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