Re: Learning to be efficient with screen review


Sarah k Alawami
 

If you go to http://qrz.com and try and access yoru profile you cannot unless you go to document view, find your call, click it, then use document review to find the expanded menu. Sometimes up and dow arrow will work, sometimes not, it depends on the site. Also if you go to http://simmarket.com you sometimes have to use document review to see what's going on especially when you are buying stuff. also at http://aavirtual.net, http://fdx.org, http://flyvirtual.net, etc. There are others where you were forced to use all 3 views, but I can't recall them as it's ben almost 10 years since i've been on those sites.

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On 3 Feb 2021, at 16:03, Gene wrote:

I didn't notice you said document review. So I withdraw my comments about you confusing different views in large part. But there is your statement I commented about in a different message. I will leave that question opened as it isn't clarified.

But why use document review on web sites. You can move around on web pages using the virtual cursor as if you are in a document with arrow keys, tab, quick navigation keys, etc. I see no advantage in seeing how the document is laid out or in efficiency in using document review.

Of course, there are times when you are trying to activate something where you need to use the virtual mouse, but at those times, remaining in object navigation, routing the mouse to your location and clicking works fine. You may be able to do that in document review too, but I see no advantage.

Gene
-----Original Message----- From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 5:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review

That's why I said document view on a website, not screen review. I believe there is a screen review as well on the website side of things. I must look when I'm not working. Yes, you can go from object to object. I do not, I do use document view to explore though. So, it behooves the user to be Perficient at both, starting with screen review/document review, then object review. It to me makes sense work flow wise.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 2:14 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review

That is not necessarily true and is an over generalization. A user doesn't have to learn screen review first. It is easier to understand and learn screen review first and a lot of people know how to use it from using other screen-readers that have that feature. There are times when you can see something with screen review you can't see in object review. there are times you can see something in object review you can't in screen review. If the user is advanced to the point where he/she needs access in ways many less advanced users do, they should learn both for good access.

But you are making a certain statement that is not true. You can't use screen review on web pages. If you think you are, then you are using object review and you think you are using screen review.

When you are using screen review, you can still move from object to object as though you were in objecct review. I don't use the laptop layout, but if you use the commands NVDA key numpad 4 or NVDA numpad 6, those move you from object to object regardless of whether you are in screen review or object review.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



No, I'm talking about switching to screen review mode if there is only one
object. It for me is much easier because of the way the laptop layout is
designed, and most of the time, at least in the programs I use, screen
review is much better and faster to use than object mode. If you want to see
examples go to my lbry page and watch some of the videos I post, there. You
will hear me using screen review, a lot. You will also hear me switch to
screen review when I start the programs I need, then stay in screen review
for the deration of the video(s) You will also see that arrows do not make
any difference when I am using arrows which is, at least for what I do,
rare. There are also other examples here as well.



I dun no know as I said how to use all the views perfectly, but I can get
around fairly quickly in regard to what I need to do. I stress a user must
learn screen review first, then interact with each element of the screen via
object review.



-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:01 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



If there is only one object, you don't necessarily have to go into review
mode. You can simply use the review commands, numpad 8 for read current
line, numpad 7 for previous line, numpad 9 for next line, etc. When doing
so in object navigation, you are reviewing the current objject.



Going into screen review doesn't work on web pages because of how browsers
send data to the screen.



Are you talking about using commands such as numpad 8 while in object
navigation or are you talking about actually switching to screen review
mode?



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Sarah k Alawami

Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2021 10:36 AM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



I agree to a point, however I would learn how to use screen and document
view. There will come a time when you must use them because programs don't
work well in object mode. For example, there is only 1 object but a lot of
stuff on the screen that can be clicked, or using screen review is the only
way to get around the app/website. I know how to use all the views. I prefer
screen review and use it for getting around when I have a recalcitrant
app/website.



-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene

Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2021 8:44 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review



You need to use object navigation. Screen review is much more limited in
Windows 10 for technical reasons someone else will have to explain. When
you use NVDA key b, you are actually reading all the objects available to
the program.



Gene

-----Original Message-----

From: Deborah Armstrong

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2021 7:18 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Learning to be efficient with screen review





I have found the NVDA screen review inconsistent and I am trying to figure
out why and how to get around the problem.



Try this experiment:

1. Type Windows with R to issue the Run Command 2. Type an invalid drive
letter say M: or I: and press enter.

An Error message will appear.

3. Use Insert numpad 1 or Insert Numpad 7 to switch to screen review (you do
not want to be in object review).

4. Use the 8 and 9 numpad keys to read the error message.

This works fine.



Now press Windows I to go to settings.

1. Arrow down and right to Update and Security.

2. Use Insert-B to read the entire screen. That works..

3. But now try these review mode commands to review the screen.

Insert 1 or 7 to make sure you are in Screen review mode

7 8 and 9 on the numeric keypad to read the top, current and following lines
and keep pressing 9.

You will only hear the word "Bottom".

They do not work. You cannot read the Windows update screen in settings
using screen review.

You can explore your computer with object review, but I can't figure out how
to read that screen, slowly at my own pace with the screen review mode.



Why is this? When focus cannot go to all areas of a screen, how can I read
what's there? Or even if focus can go there, how can I select and copy with

NVDA-F9 and F10 or read it slower?



















































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