locked Re: Prepared to be banned from list, but I'll air my views anyway.

Mike Capelle <mcap@...>

This is why I would recommend subscribing to the blindtech list:
We also have a chat discussion list, where you can have lengthy discussions. It is called blind-talk.
To subscribe to the blind-talk list, send a message to:
I will now exit this group.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Malykh
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 11:28 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Prepared to be banned from the list as well

This is Tony, the author of many NVDA add-ons and occasional
contributor to NVDA core.

I would like to join Jaffar Sidek and express my discontent with Brian
Vogel's moderation policy of this list. While I was not involved in
said discussion, I've had arguments with Brian before, and I disagree
with his moderation policy.
Brian, I know this message violates half of your rules, but you locked
the previous thread, and you don't allow any other ways of expressing
opinions, so you leave me no other choice to speak up.
Brian, your moderation style is hurting this community. Instead of
letting people talk to each other to solve their accessibility issues
you lock threads under excuses that they violate rules that you yourself
imposed. You give warnings to people left and right for missing some
other email on the list. In general your moderation policy creates an
atmosphere of fear instead of collaboration. People are afraid to ask
and answer questions.
My previous attempts of communicating this privately to you led nowhere,
your typical response is "I am tired of people complaining about my
moderation style."
Your list of rules is incomplete - I actually read it - and it is always
hard to predict which grey area topics you would think are appropriate
for the list and which ones are not. My request for clarification was
unanswered. And this becomes a big deal since you enforce those
not-so-clear and not-so-well-defined set of rules vigorously. To us this
feels like toss of a coin: we never know whether you'll consider certain
topic to be violating or not.
Regarding reading all the previous emails on the thread - I personally
don't see a big problem when someone didn't read another email on the
thread. Brian, you are sighted, so seeing the tree of emails is much
easier for you. For blind people it is much more complicated to keep
the structure of emails in the head, so try to forgive them once in a
while. Moreover, some people on this list are old, and as people get
older, it is harder and harder to keep tree-like structures of emails in
the head. So giving out strict warnings to blind people for not being
able to keep track of all the emails - seems to me ridiculously harsh

The ultimate question we should ask is whether this list is better than
it was before Brian started to moderate it or not. I still remember this
list before Brian, and indeed there were a few off-topic threads, that
were mildly annoying, but that wasn't a big deal. Now with Brian people
are more scared to ask questions. People are scared to respond. All an
all, if we view this mailing list as a tool for people to exchange
thoughts on NVDA, solutions to problems, etc, I believe the
effectiveness of this tool went down after Brian started to moderate it.
I myself don't show up here often anymore, partly because it is no
longer enjoyable. I am the author of many NVDA add-ons (such as
Bluetooth Audio, BrowserNav, SentenceNav, TextNav and others)and I have
contributed a few PRs to NVDA core, most notably fast browse mode. If I
spent a month working on an add-on, I wish to be able to tell people
about it. While Brian has never locked my threads about my add-ons, he
locked a closely related thread regarding SSH accessibility, with an
excuse that "less than 10% people on this list know what is SSH." So I
don't have much confidence that tomorrow Brian won't lock my thread
about another add-on, with a similar excuse, give me a strict warning,
and tell me "he's tired of people like me."
Since it is possible that after this message I will get banned for
speaking up, you guys know whom to blame if I won't be able to answer
questions regarding my add-ons on this mailing list.

To all the subscribers: this thread is likely to be locked by Brian (if
it will ever go through), so feel free to reply to me privately if you
feel unhappy with Brian as well.
Best regards

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