Re: edit user guide

Sarah k Alawami

I disagree. I learned from my trainer, but he did not say what was windows
and what was not. Now that I think about it it would have been nice, now
that I know that, I think most computer users should be good enough to at
least google simple "windows shortcut keys." I hate hand holding, and I
don't do it, not unless the person is 100 percent new and very lost, but if
I know they have a grasp on things then I step back and let them founder on
their own.

-----Original Message-----
From: <> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] edit user guide

I haven't looked at screen-reader user guides for a long time. My
recollection is that in the past, they described Windows enough to allow
someone to use it in basic ways such as describing how to work with files
and folders. This was a long time ago when Windows 95 and 98 were being
used and most blind people hadn't used Windows. That's how I learned enough
about Windows to use it and to start adding to my knowledge in different

You can discuss or debate whether it would be better to have a section in
the guide before the guide starts about learning something about Windows or
whether such a section should be its own separate document, but it might be
a good idea to have something.

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Davis
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2021 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] edit user guide

On Wed, 7 Apr 2021, Brian Vogel wrote:

-And even though this is absolutely true, NVDA documentation should
not focus on Windows commands, either.
I don't disagree, but I am curious about:

But it should be presumed that someone coming to NVDA is and has
already been a Windows user and already knows the keyboard shortcuts
used to do things like cut, copy, paste, save, save as, and the list
goes on and on.
Why should that be presumed?

As I understand it, one of the core intents for NVDA is second or third
world use, where other screen readers are either not available, or are
prohibitively expensive. (Obviously, this does not take into account
Narrator's increasing

In such circumstances, a blind user likely has no Windows experience at all,
and shouldn't be expected to have it. Additionally, it doesn't seem
reasonable to assume that such users have good access to trainers of any
kind beyond basic installation.

Therefore, what am I missing that makes it logical to expect them to have
prior Windows experience?

It is important, critically important, to be able to separate out "who
controls what," and by that I mean knowing what commands are Windows
commands and work pretty much everywhere under Windows, what are
screen reader commands, and what are commands specific to the
application being accessed.
Absolutely true. In my experience, trainers for Window-eyes and Jaws, have
rarely taught that difference. People I have worked with to try to teach
them to use NVDA, have often been completely ignorant, and surprised by the
fact, that some of the shortcuts they knew were actually Windows commands.
tend to assume that nothing they already know is applicable, because they
think it is all screen reader commands; and are afraid to try things because
they think it will make something happen that they won't be able to come
back from.
Worse, as I understand it, sometimes Jaws, et al have created their own
versions of Windows shortcut commands, which just muddies the waters.


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