Re: NVDA Features feedback


 

Hello all,

Gene, on the matter of punctuation, I fully agree with you.

I mean - who thought that it is a good idea to define some of the punctuation to be spoken at level "None" (!?). What part of the meaning of the word "none" such people do not understand (!?). At least for me, the word "none" means "nothing". Maybe for those people the word "none" instead means "something" (?). Well - it does not - it means "nothing". Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but I'm just seriously surprised at such a strange decision about the spoken punctuation.

In my opinion, the punctuation level "none" should set NVDA to not speak any punctuation. Yes, even on level "none", some of the punctuation (e.g. period, comma, exclamation, question, etc.) should be send directly to the speech synthesizer for processing, but it should not be converted to text for speaking. And I'm planning to file a ticket in NVDA's GitHub page with such a feature request for this behavior of NVDA to be changed.

And for people who for one reason or another want more punctuation spoken, they can set NVDA to a punctuation level different than "none".

As for verbosity. In my opinion, by default it should be set so at least most things are reported by the screen reader. Reason: accommodation of novice users. Advanced users can reduce it if they want. And yes, the ability to easily set the verbosity level with presets (like we have for punctuation) would be a good idea.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 16.12.2021 г. в 6:54, Gene написа:

Having said that, I still think some of this is ridiculous.  Here is such an absurd example of oververbosity that I am sending it.  This is how a song list is formatted on a Youtube page.  The eye candy has no function.
I am using the no punctuation setting yet these signs are set to none as they all or almost all are.
【00:00】A1 - If You Love Me
【02:34】A2 - The Whale
【06:01】A3 - Rosie Jane
【09:09】A4 - What Have They Done To The Rain
【11:25】A5 - On The Rim Of The World
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback
 
I’ll add that the reason I vfind your comments valuable is that until now, I’ve never seen a good or systematic reason why more and more verbosity is made available and is turned on by default.  Never having seen a reason, I just thought of it as unnecessary to a lot of users.  But since you made a case for its value, I started thinking about how to preserve the practice and easily allow users to control verbosity.  Sometimes, knowing why something is done helps figure out how to solve a problem.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback
 
That’s an interesting position, that not adding verbosity will creat blackout.  It may have merit or some merit.  But perhaps there is a better way.  Perhaps for new users of NVDA, an announcement might be made when using browse mode that will tell people about how to control verbosity.  To make such an announcement practical, there would have to be commands such as no verbosity, moderate verbosity and all verbosity.  The user could be referred to information discussing verbosity on web pages, perhaps a link could be available.  But I don’t think that just having everything on is a good solution with no structure that directs the user to learn about verbosity on the Internet. 
 
I wouldn’t object to the level of verbosity now used if what I am suggesting were implemented. 
 
And the structure could have a don’t show me this again option.  That might be the best solution.  Whatever level of verbosity the developers want to use and a structure such as I am proposing.
 
This may be something I’ll propose on Github.  Your comments are very useful in proposing a reason to have verbosity on and have led me to consider what I am proposing.
 
Gene.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2021 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA Features feedback
 
On Wed, Dec 15, 2021 at 01:58 PM, Gene wrote:
If there is going to be this amount of verbosity, and it keeps being added to, I think users should be surveyed.
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And, I have to say, I don't.

The additions to verbosity are the direct result to new additions to web coding.  Structures have appeared, and will continue to appear, that have not existed in the past.  And some that existed and were used extensively fall out of favor.

It should never be up to a screen reader developer to hide any information about new content as the web develops.  The default should always be to announce its presence, as otherwise you're intentionally creating information blackout about formatting and structure.

You should also easily be able to turn this verbosity off, and I do agree (and kinda said it) that there should be verbosity levels that roughly equate to what long term users say about what they do and do not want to hear announced.  Even if those exist, people will likely need to custom tweak at a given verbosity level to bring back certain things now quieted and vice versa.  Those new things should be moved into the verbosity levels after they have been in use for some arbitrary period of time.  But when they're brand spankin' new, they have to be something a screen reader user is made aware of.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

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