Re: NVDA announcing shortcut keys

Gtt North Bay

Brian and Gene, can we kill this topic or take it off list.

To much back and forth.



Brian B.



From: <> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: January 16, 2022 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys


I didn't say what I said to say that one screen-reader is better.  I'm saying that Window-eyes, in this respect, is superior because settings aren't automatically saved.  But beyond that, I'm not making any general statements in my message.



On 1/16/2022 3:48 PM, Arlene wrote:

Hi there: I can’t argue here. I used Jaws since I got a computer. I did try a demo of window eyes. I found it too bulkie. I ran home to JFW because I didn’t know window eyes.  In my neck of the woods in Canada British Columbia.  There wasn’t a vender I knew of that supported it. They were big on JFW. Later I did find a vender that did support Window eyes. I don’t know if they exist. They were based out of Victoria.  Now, for me to get JFW, I have to go to another Vender for JFW.  Our local venders do not support it.  There’s one in Langley and another in Vancouver.  They support system Access. This is why I use NVDA. I can get it online. Not have to go to a vender to get it! I have both it and Jaws on my system. Some things I’ll use NVDA. Some I’ll use Jaws. Don’t worry I wont use them at the same time. Lol   


Sent from Mail for Windows


From: Gene
Sent: January 16, 2022 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys


I'll point out, though arguing from authority doesn't prove a thing is right, that still, one of the most respected instructors in the field expressed the opinion that Window-eyes was better than JAWS in this respect because users were more free to experiment.


People may differ with me all they like, but why is the current default better than my proposal?



On 1/16/2022 1:42 PM, Gene wrote:

I can state an opinion about what should be the case without always qualifying it by saying something like others may disagree, etc.  This sort of thing is done constantly.  See editorial pages and opinion columns for innumerable examples.  When I write in such a way, I assume that it is generally understood that I am expressing an opinion.


This is not a question of taste, usual or not.  It isn't a question of I like chocolate ice cream.  It is a question of which better serves users. 


Aside from that, Openbook does not automatically save settings.  Window-eyes didn't.  I don't think Kurzweil does. These designers may have had good reasons for what they did. 


In the case of Window-eyes, the reason was so that users could experiment with settings, then not accidentally have them be saved.  I suspect that also, in the cases of all three of these programs, this was done so users could change settings, then change them back if the changes were intended to be temporary such as temporarily changing a contrast setting.  It was evidently intended that these settings would not be accidentally saved on exit.



On 1/16/2022 12:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 01:04 PM, Gene wrote:

This should not be the default behavior.

Again, Gene, this is your opinion.  It is not mine.

In almost all programs, including NVDA, when people change settings they want those changes "to stick" and actually expect it unless they deliberately arrange it otherwise.  This has been a convention for decades, and across types of software.

You know how to turn this off.  If you don't like that default, then do that.  Your tastes, which are sometimes unusual, don't hold sway.  All the time you state, unequivocally, that they should.  Sorry, but, no.

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.

       ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)




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