Brian and Gene, can we kill this topic or take it off list.

To much back and forth.

Thanks,

Brian B.

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* January 16, 2022 5:15 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

I didn't say what I said to say that one screen-reader is better.  I'm
saying that Window-eyes, in this respect, is superior because settings
aren't automatically saved.  But beyond that, I'm not making any general
statements in my message.

Gene

On 1/16/2022 3:48 PM, Arlene wrote:

Hi there: I can’t argue here. I used Jaws since I got a computer. I
did try a demo of window eyes. I found it too bulkie. I ran home to
JFW because I didn’t know window eyes.  In my neck of the woods in
Canada British Columbia.  There wasn’t a vender I knew of that
supported it. They were big on JFW. Later I did find a vender that
did support Window eyes. I don’t know if they exist. They were based
out of Victoria.  Now, for me to get JFW, I have to go to another
Vender for JFW.  Our local venders do not support it.  There’s one
in Langley and another in Vancouver.  They support system Access.
This is why I use NVDA. I can get it online. Not have to go to a
vender to get it! I have both it and Jaws on my system. Some things
I’ll use NVDA. Some I’ll use Jaws. Don’t worry I wont use them at
the same time. Lol

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows

*From: *Gene <mailto:gsasner@...>
*Sent: *January 16, 2022 11:51 AM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys

I'll point out, though arguing from authority doesn't prove a thing
is right, that still, one of the most respected instructors in the
field expressed the opinion that Window-eyes was better than JAWS in
this respect because users were more free to experiment.

People may differ with me all they like, but why is the current
default better than my proposal?

Gene

On 1/16/2022 1:42 PM, Gene wrote:

I can state an opinion about what should be the case without
always qualifying it by saying something like others may
disagree, etc.  This sort of thing is done constantly.  See
editorial pages and opinion columns for innumerable examples.
When I write in such a way, I assume that it is generally
understood that I am expressing an opinion.

This is not a question of taste, usual or not.  It isn't a
question of I like chocolate ice cream.  It is a question of
which better serves users.

Aside from that, Openbook does not automatically save settings.
Window-eyes didn't.  I don't think Kurzweil does. These
designers may have had good reasons for what they did.

In the case of Window-eyes, the reason was so that users could
experiment with settings, then not accidentally have them be
saved.  I suspect that also, in the cases of all three of these
programs, this was done so users could change settings, then
change them back if the changes were intended to be temporary
such as temporarily changing a contrast setting.  It was
evidently intended that these settings would not be accidentally
saved on exit.

Gene

On 1/16/2022 12:53 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 01:04 PM, Gene wrote:

This should not be the default behavior.

-
Again, Gene, this is your opinion.  It is not mine.

In almost all programs, including NVDA, when people change
settings they want those changes "to stick" and actually
expect it unless they deliberately arrange it otherwise.
This has been a convention for decades, and across types of
software.

You know how to turn this off.  If you don't like that
default, then do that.  Your tastes, which are sometimes
unusual, don't hold sway.  All the time you state,
unequivocally, that they should.  Sorry, but, no.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

/*The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit
group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it
becomes inessential what these ideals are.*/

/*       ~ */Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)

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