Re: for the third time, filling out a PDF

Bob Cavanaugh

I'm really not sure. Whether in Adobe or the recent issue I had with
GMail, I find it a little odd/annoying that there are situations where
focus mode must be forced in order to interact with an element. In my
view, I should be able to interact with elements in either mode. That
means on the GMail website, I shouldn't have to force focus mode in
order to interact with the button that switches to basic HTML, and in
Adobe, I should be able to tab through a form starting in browse mode
and expect it to automatically switch to focus mode where needed. I
have no idea how much that has to do with the way NVDA and Adobe
interact or the way the file was created, but I'd assume the former as
that trick has worked in all files I've tried. I definitely think
people should be more educated on how to make their PDF files fillable
so that I don't have to print them just to fill them out, but that's a
different issue outside the scope of this discussion.

On 6/5/22, Brian's Mail list account via
<bglists@...> wrote:
I think its that people tend not to use the pro version of Adobe to create
their PDFs, so many are made using third party tools or simply something
that creates pdfs from a printer stream that 'looks' right, but usually
falls apart as the reading order changes and the tagging does not.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Smart" <ve3rwj@...>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2022 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

I especially don't understand why there are so many problems, because Adobe

on the surface at least, appear to take accessibility quite seriously. They

are always represented at major accessibility conferences like Ax-con.

-----Original Message-----
From: <> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail
list account via
Sent: June 4, 2022 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

There seem to be so many issues with PDF files, particularly accessibility
wise, I simply cannot see why programs produce them do not actually make
them accessible as it is then when thy have all the data needed to make the

changes to reading order and the positioning and interactability of edit
field in any file created, As long as we leave this to the user, we get lots

of hit and miss files that work only partly in different readers.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bhavya shah" <bhavya.shah125@...>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2022 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] for the third time, filling out a PDF

Dear all,

While I may be unable to share the PDF in question, I had an experience with

a fillable PDF form that:
1 Edge and Firefox could read the contents of but not access the form fields

in (expected)
2 Adobe Acrobat DC rendered both the text and form fields of but did not let

me edit or input anything in (I had freshly installed Adobe Acrobat DC and
had selected the recommended accessibility settings rather than any custom
ones when it detected my use of assistive
3 Foxit Reader rendered both the text and the form fields of and allowed me

to populate edit fields and check check boxes in and save the edited
document (the process was far from fully accessible but

I am willing to concede that with some settings changes somewhere, Adobe
might have been able to get the job done. But as it stands, Foxit was the
only tool that worked out-of-the-box and afforded me the most access to
editing the interactive PDF. All of that is to encourage folks to consider
opening the PDFs they previously found half-acccessible in Foxit Reader


On 5/23/22, Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
I've seen the progress indicator in question, but on smaller PDF files
like the one I linked to, I don't see that indicator, and it didn't
seem to change the way it was handled by NVDA.

On 5/23/22, Dave Grossoehme <dave@...> wrote:
Sorry I'm late on this information. However, it would sound like
something is hanging up the response of NVDA and Adobe to tell the
user that the application is being loaded. I have questioned this
action being a problem when using Windows 11, but is this a UAI
Problem, or something with NVDA or Adobe?


On 5/20/2022 6:59 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Well, when I open the form Bob gave the link for, I eventually end
up having it act just like any random web form would in terms of
tabbing through the form fields. There are also a number of
checkboxes to indicate a given piece of equipment in the list has
been returned and these are on the second page of the form.

But note well, I said "eventually." I can't make any sense of what's
going on, and am not getting any useful status either from Adobe or
from NVDA with regard to whether there is background processing
going on by the Accessibility Wizard to hand information to NVDA
that it would not otherwise have. But whatever is happening it is NOT
I can play around for at least 1 minute, possibly somewhat longer,
whether via point and click or using tab to move among the various
fields. Then, after waiting for a while, suddenly tabbing between
the fields gives the field label, including the colon that's a part
of each label, when you land in the various fields.

Very strange. No rational person would expect a lag like this
between opening a document and being able to use it with a screen
reader sans any sort of warning that they needed to wait for
something to finish before they start.

I am using Windows 10, Version 21H2, Build 19044.1076 Adobe Reader
DC 2022.001.20117 NVDA 2021.3.5

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

*/You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them
by ignoring them.
/* ~ Ursula LeGuin, /The Dispossessed/

Kind Regards,
Bhavya Shah
B.S. in Mathematical and Computational Science | Stanford '24

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