Re: holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Quentin,

You wrote:
...NVDA will remain free and open source.  Re the suggestion that we should charge for it so users can demand excellent, I would argue you have every right to expect excellence now....

and I would argue that even if you pay for it, in this kind of small (relatively speaking) market, even if you pay hundreds of dollars, what guarantee do you have of excellence anyway?  As a long time JAWS user, I worked for the private beta team for more than a decade and there were always problems.  I got booted from the list for making a snide remark when during the final stages of the JAWS 11 testing cycle, at the last minute, they decided to remove a popular feature without telling anyone. This feature was tested by me and several dozen others right up to the end of the cycle and then they decided to do a complete about face. 

There's no guarantee that private companies are any better than public endeavors--no matter how much we are told otherwise.
 


On 6/17/2022 2:15 AM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Just to confirm NVDA will remain free and open source.  Re the suggestion that we should charge for it so users can demand excellent, I would argue you have every right to expect excellence now.  And I like to think we generally deliver on that ideal.  Not always, sure, but we do aim to set the bar high!

Re add-ons, which, arguably, seem to be the main complaint (well, add-ons and the breaking of them) - as Brian rightfully pointed out, almost all of them are made and maintained by people other than NV Access, so we can't make any guarantees about them.  What we can say, is that we advise the add-on community often a year in advance, of breaking changes.  Case in point, if you look at the what's new for NVDA 2022.2 Beta 1: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/releases/2022.2beta1/documentation/changes.html

Under the Changes for developers section, you will find:

"Deprecations
These are proposed API breaking changes. The deprecated part of the API will continue to be available until the specified release. If no release is specified, the plan for removal has not been determined. Note, the roadmap for removals is 'best effort' and may be subject to change. Please test the new API and provide feedback. For add-on authors, please open a GitHub issue if these changes stop the API from meeting your needs."

There are a handful of depreciated functions and their replacements listed.  So we do try to give people as much notice as possible.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 3:58 PM Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Yes, Ron,

 

And there is also a large group of people, in any aspect of society,  who trumpet loud and wide, “you get what you pay for”.

I am glad to make a small contribution   to nvda rather than supporting jaws.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: June 16, 2022 11:50 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

Hi Group,

I hope NVDA never goes commercial.  In the US now-of-days, there is a persistent and radical libertarian philosophy that has taken hold of a large minority of the people saying in essence: 'If you don't pay, you don't play.'  Without getting into a political discussion on this issue, people who advocate this don't realize just what profound changes would result if this philosophy (as it appears likely) takes over the body politic entirely.  Just think of Europe from the middle ages to the nineteenth century. 

Having said that, people should be appreciative of the great work done by the creators of NVDA and should be grateful and not complain so much.  A small donation--even from unemployed blind people to NVDA would be in order.  Since it is well known that millions (I believe over 70 million at last report) of people in the world use NVDA, just imagine if everyone gave the equivalence of five dollars US a year.  That would be 350 million dollars US yearly. 

As far s as code factory Eloquence, I am having no problem with the SAPI 5 version of the product.  What issues are there with this product?

On 6/16/2022 11:31 PM, Ravindran V.S. wrote:

Dear Mike,

If my understanding is correct of your message,

Please note, ever since NVDA released as a free screen reader millions of Blind users have got into some kind of technical or computer literacy and use of technology.

If not still a vast majority would not be able to access computers due to the high cost of the commercial products.

Also, NVDA has created many job opportunities to many Visually Impaired Persons in several countries.

So, I urge that this should continue as the current way it is as an open source product and accessible to all Blind people.

People in the poor countries, and the developing countries are mainly depending on this screen reader. Who may be heavily using the product, but may not be in a position or afford to donate towards this cause.

Therefore, I kindly request to all the developers and contributors to keep  and continue this as an open source and free product, or at least to the people in the poor countries.

We even get the computers through donations, under this circumstances how could we spend hundreds or thousands of Dollars to the commercial Screen Readers?

I live in Sri Lanka, and now even we almost starving , under this situation cannot think of purchasing any screen reader or anything other than considered to be essential items.

Which some time may cost the job of the Blind people as well, who are depending on NVDA for their work .

So, for delay of any Add-Ons should not deny access of a screen reader for many Blind people.

Thank you in advance for understanding. NVDA is a blessing to many Blind.

Ravi.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of mike mcglashon
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 9:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

Quoting:

My own view is that these add-ons should be updated in the Alpha or Beta stages, not after release. Either that, or NVDA should not keep breaking compatibility with them.

End quote:

 

Amen to this.

If NVDA were a commercial software instead of “charitable open source code”, these practices might not be tolerated as easily.

I wish sometimes that NVDA would “actually charge” for its software instead of hiding behind “donations” then we could demand excellence.

It is strictly my belief that we as a society give too much leeway to “charitable” products.

 

I say these things as a “donor” to NVDA.

 

 

Please advise as you like.

 

Mike M.

 

Mike mcglashon

Email: Michael.mcglashon@...

Ph: 618 783 9331

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 12:06 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

No, you’re not alone. It makes work also for the average user, who gets their NVDA just right with add-ons, only to find them broken in the next version.

 

My own view is that these add-ons should be updated in the Alpha or Beta stages, not after release. Either that, or NVDA should not keep breaking compatibility with them.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Wood
Sent: 23 May 2022 20:16
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

As a random interjection I find it quite disturbing how easily add ons are losing compatibility from one minor version to the next. This is a trend I as a user am not a fan of. It means more work for developers, more issues by the end user if add ons become unsupported, or at least, unsupported according to NVDA itself, and less time to actually make improvements for the developers who are already placing their doubtlessly limited and free time into this wonderful hobby of creating resources for NVDA to take advantage of.

I am truly curious to know what I, as a user, am benefiting from with this so called fragmentation. Previously add ons would work without issue, now it’s a guessing game as to which add ons will be disabled and stop working when I’d like to update NVDA from, again, one minor version to the next.

 

As it stands right now, I’m running a portable version of the latest NVDA due to the above, with my main install remaining an older version. Am I alone in viewing this slightly worrying trend?

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of mattias
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2022 10:38 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

Lol we got the same answer..

 

Skickades från E-post för Windows

 

Från: Supanut Leepaisomboon
Skickat: den 23 maj 2022 12:18
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] holding off on 2022.1 due to Code Factory dragging their feet

 

So I just got a reply from Codefactory, to a ticket regarding compatibility with NVDA 2022.1 that I submitted way back in April. Below is their response:
Good morning,
We are aware that a breaking NVDA update was released today.
We've been working on the addon, but unfortunately our update will take a few more days to complete.
Thank you for your patience.
The Code Factory technical team.

 



-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grievous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

Join nvda@nvda.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.