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No it wasn't. I never mentioned any user group specifically.
On 8/5/2022 9:17 AM, Gene wrote:
Even if you are right, almost all of this discussion would have
been different in tone from your initial response to the answers
you got if your first response hadn't been over the top. What you
are saying now is much different in tone and content. To keep
this message short, I won't go into what you initially said to any
extent but if you look at your first message, it was a scathing
attack on my attitudes towards blind computer users in general and
the way I use computers.
Had you initially responded with your objections to the phrase "I
wonder" more or less as you stated them later, the responses to
what you wrote would have been much different in tone and perhaps
On 8/5/2022 6:35 AM, Steve Matzura
What you said was "I wonder why people are so concerned with
...". That is the only phrase I didn't like. If you don't
understand why I think that's a very negative and maybe even
condescending approach to giving advice or instruction, then
I'm clearly very confused about how people take in what others
say and maybe need to grow a thicker skin.
On 8/4/2022 8:41 PM, Gene wrote:
think that in view of what you have said more than once, in
case people believe I said my way is better or people should
use it, I didn't make any such statements. I explained why I
prefer the method I use. When I said I wonder, I was saying
that I wonder if a lot of people don't know the way I use
because a lot of people don't just look around or try things
out of curiosity and my initial message didn't make any
statement saying that the other way is inferior or that people
shouldn't use it. While I didn't explain that that is why I
said I wonder, my message discussed it to such an extent that
I believed people would understand that meaning. Regardless,
the discussion may help people be more aware of the value of
looking around. Here are a few more examples of the value of
checking the title bar in many programs when the programs are
doing things you might expect to generate information or if
you re just curious.
I started doing this more after I did so just to do it and I
found information I wanted to know some of the time.
For example, at times, if I'm listening to a recording using
Winamp and for some reason, there is a period of silence, if I
read the title bar it will say Winamp if it is still playing
and Winamp stopped if the file has ended.
There are some audio streams such as some old time radio
streams I can stream in Winamp. Usually, the site is set up
so the name of what is being played appears in the title bar.
I don't use it much any longer, but I used to use a radio
aggregator program and if the station provided the
information, which it usually did, I could see what was
playing by reading the title bar.
While I don't know this, I suspect a lot of blind people miss
information they might want because they don't know what is
shown in the title bar at times.
On 8/4/2022 7:16 PM, Steve
All I can say to answer, and hopefully close, this topic
is to say that I think I know lots of reasonable people,
and many of them take great issue when people say things
like "I don't know why you're so concerned with this when
you can get the same thing another way ..." etc. Who is
anyone to say they don't understand why folks do the
things the way they do? If they get the information they
need, if the job gets done, does it really matter to us
how they get it? Like I recently said, we can suggest
better maybe more efficient alternatives, but they should
come in that form--a suggestion, hopefully given with the
idea of expanding the listener's knowledge about
something. It just sounds like a criticism, is all I'm
saying. I've worked with enough people in over thirty-five
years to have observed how what one says can be taken in
by said listener, and maybe even misinterpreted. I try to
avoid that at all costs.
On 8/4/2022 7:32 PM, Gene
Perhaps, since you have been the only person to put
forward your interpretation, it may mean that your
understanding is not generally shared, which may mean that
your criticism is generally not valid. I can interpret
all sorts of things in all sorts of ways. The law uses,
constantly, the reasonable person standard, what would a
resonable person do in such a circumstance, how would a
reasonable person understand something.
On 8/4/2022 5:32 PM, Steve
You missed my point, which was to say that it's not
our business to openly wonder why people do the things
they do the way they do them. In my opinion, that's
just unnecessary and, quite frankly, harsh criticism
folks don't need. Ask all you like about why others do
things differently than you do; using phrases like "I
wonder why" can be easily misinterpreted to mean "How
silly you are to do things that way, when my way is so
superior--I don't need all that other nonsense."
Suggesting better methods is always good; putting
someone down for failing to acknowledge the
superiority of your methods or for using others that
you yourself might not like or use, that's not cool.
On 8/4/2022 12:37 PM, Brian
Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 12:33 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
And I wonder at times why you wonder at
times about the why's and wherefores of how others
Take your own advice. All of us have the right to
wonder about how other people handle things, and to
express our opinions about same. It's no skin off
In addition, and this is not a case like this, very
often "how someone works" reveals an ignorance about
other options. I can't count the number of times
someone's said that they do something one way, which
is without question a more difficult way, and were
advised by others that a number of other options
I have tired of people who seem to thing that being
challenged or questioned on a group like this one is
inappropriate. It isn't. You, and anyone else, is
free to take or reject any advice offered.