locked Re: No Beeps in Explorer Any More?


Gene
 

It may not be an attack but it is a message that, in effect says, shut up and don't ask such questions.  I was wrong.  You didn't say I was such a person.  I was annoyed when I first saw your message and I didn't read it to the end but is a message that is lecturing and doesn't even consider that my comments may have value in helping many people become better computer users. When I said your message was over the top, I was talking about the part where you ask if I am the kind of computer user who does such and such.  You then said I wasn't so I was wrong about that part being an attack and over the top.  As I said, when I read that part, I didn't continue to see the I don't think you are part. 

But the tone of your entire message, is lecturing and telling me, in effect, to shut up and doesn't even consider that I am asking a constructive question and making constructive points.  I did not, and the rest of the message clearly shows that I did not use the phrase I wonder as you interpret it.  The point of my message is that if you look around and get information in various ways, you may use computer programs and Windows more constructively.  I never said one word indicating that people shouldn't use progress tones.  If they want to, that's fine.  But I do want to encourage people to look around more because they may find useful information and they may find other ways of doing things they may like more.

Here is the message beginning with the quote you object to that you reproduce from my message:

I wonder at times why people are so concerned to hear progress announcements or beeps.


And I wonder at times why you wonder at times about the why's and wherefores of how others work. Are you one of these minimalist blind people that pride themselves on getting by with the least amount of information so they can look like they're so efficient and productive alongside their non-blind counterparts? LOL! I didn't think so. So give it a rest and listen to what other users are saying--that they had the same problem I did but thought it was normal, and they're glad someone asked about it and got a solution that helps their productivity.


And please don't respond to this message. I'm not into flame wars. I'm just trying to point out that if a tool or feature exists, no one should feel they should avoid using it because someone thinks that person's way is inferior or inefficient. The way you work is best for you; the way I work is best for me. The two ways are different. And that should be where this thread ends.

On 8/5/2022 3:45 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

No it wasn't. I never mentioned any user group specifically.


On 8/5/2022 9:17 AM, Gene wrote:
Even if you are right, almost all of this discussion would have been different in tone from your initial response to the answers you got if your first response hadn't been over the top.  What you are saying now is much different in tone and content.  To keep this message short, I won't go into what you initially said to any extent but if you look at your first message, it was a scathing attack on my attitudes towards blind computer users in general and the way I use computers.

Had you initially responded with your objections to the phrase "I wonder" more or less as you stated them later, the responses to what you wrote would have been much different in tone and perhaps in content.

Gene

On 8/5/2022 6:35 AM, Steve Matzura wrote:

What you said was "I wonder why people are so concerned with ...". That is the only phrase I didn't like. If you don't understand why I think that's a very negative and maybe even condescending approach to giving advice or instruction, then I'm clearly very confused about how people take in what others say and maybe need to grow a thicker skin.


On 8/4/2022 8:41 PM, Gene wrote:
I think that in view of what you have said more than once, in case people believe I said my way is better or people should use it, I didn't make any such statements.  I explained why I prefer the method I use.  When I said I wonder, I was saying that I wonder if a lot of people don't know the way I use because a lot of people don't just look around or try things out of curiosity and my initial message didn't make any statement saying that the other way is inferior or that people shouldn't use it.  While I didn't explain that that is why I said I wonder, my message discussed it to such an extent that I believed people would understand that meaning.  Regardless, the discussion may help people be more aware of the value of looking around.  Here are a few more examples of the value of checking the title bar in many programs when the programs are doing things you might expect to generate information or if you re just curious. 

I started doing this more after I did so just to do it and I found information I wanted to know some of the time.

For example, at times, if I'm listening to a recording using Winamp and for some reason, there is a period of silence, if I read the title bar it will say Winamp if it is still playing and Winamp stopped if the file has ended.

There are some audio streams such as some old time radio streams I can stream in Winamp.  Usually, the site is set up so the name of what is being played appears in the title bar. 

I don't use it much any longer, but I used to use a radio aggregator program and if the station provided the information, which it usually did, I could see what was playing by reading the title bar.

While I don't know this, I suspect a lot of blind people miss information they might want because they don't know what is shown in the title bar at times. 

Gene
On 8/4/2022 7:16 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

All I can say to answer, and hopefully close, this topic is to say that I think I know lots of reasonable people, and many of them take great issue when people say things like "I don't know why you're so concerned with this when you can get the same thing another way ..." etc. Who is anyone to say they don't understand why folks do the things the way they do? If they get the information they need, if the job gets done, does it really matter to us how they get it? Like I recently said, we can suggest better maybe more efficient alternatives, but they should come in that form--a suggestion, hopefully given with the idea of expanding the listener's knowledge about something. It just sounds like a criticism, is all I'm saying. I've worked with enough people in over thirty-five years to have observed how what one says can be taken in by said listener, and maybe even misinterpreted. I try to avoid that at all costs.


On 8/4/2022 7:32 PM, Gene wrote:
Perhaps, since you have been the only person to put forward your interpretation, it may mean that your understanding is not generally shared, which may mean that your criticism is generally not valid.  I can interpret all sorts of things in all sorts of ways.  The law uses, constantly, the reasonable person standard, what would a resonable person do in such a circumstance, how would a reasonable person understand something. 

Gene

On 8/4/2022 5:32 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:

You missed my point, which was to say that it's not our business to openly wonder why people do the things they do the way they do them. In my opinion, that's just unnecessary and, quite frankly, harsh criticism folks don't need. Ask all you like about why others do things differently than you do; using phrases like "I wonder why" can be easily misinterpreted to mean "How silly you are to do things that way, when my way is so superior--I don't need all that other nonsense." Suggesting better methods is always good; putting someone down for failing to acknowledge the superiority of your methods or for using others that you yourself might not like or use, that's not cool.


On 8/4/2022 12:37 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Aug 4, 2022 at 12:33 PM, Steve Matzura wrote:
And I wonder at times why you wonder at times about the why's and wherefores of how others work.
-
Take your own advice.  All of us have the right to wonder about how other people handle things, and to express our opinions about same.  It's no skin off your nose.

In addition, and this is not a case like this, very often "how someone works" reveals an ignorance about other options.  I can't count the number of times someone's said that they do something one way, which is without question a more difficult way, and were advised by others that a number of other options exist.

I have tired of people who seem to thing that being challenged or questioned on a group like this one is inappropriate.  It isn't.  You, and anyone else, is free to take or reject any advice offered.



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