Date   

Thank you all

Sakina
 

Dear All,

First of all I would like to thank my friend Brian who introduced me to this group.

I can not thank him enough.

Secondly to Gene and all the people whose names I can not mention but I thank you all very much.

By being in your group I am learning new things each day.

It will take me a long time to learn many things, but I will persevere.

Thank you all again

With best wishes and regards always

Sakina


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

i dont know.

On 12/6/16, Andre Fisher <andrefisher729@...> wrote:
Where did you get this copy of Windows XP? Is it legal?

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
david,
i tested the demo version of jaws 11, 14 and 15 with nvda and the
result was crash and sometimes not responding nvda.
i took your advice and and recieve a message that i dont have narrator.
in the first time of installation of my windows, i tried openning
narrater via its shortcut and i did not have any voice.
i am sure that the narrator is not installed in my system.

On 12/6/16, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as
the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10
and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security
of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could
change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they
have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
-
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a
security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for
it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us
the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that
totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS,
and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in
any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and
10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for
whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes
are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you
and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way
it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64
bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed
visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1
and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few
songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on
a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Andre Fisher
 

Where did you get this copy of Windows XP? Is it legal?

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
david,
i tested the demo version of jaws 11, 14 and 15 with nvda and the
result was crash and sometimes not responding nvda.
i took your advice and and recieve a message that i dont have narrator.
in the first time of installation of my windows, i tried openning
narrater via its shortcut and i did not have any voice.
i am sure that the narrator is not installed in my system.

On 12/6/16, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as
the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10
and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could
change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
-
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for
it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us
the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that
totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS,
and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and
10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes
are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you
and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way
it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few
songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

david,
i tested the demo version of jaws 11, 14 and 15 with nvda and the
result was crash and sometimes not responding nvda.
i took your advice and and recieve a message that i dont have narrator.
in the first time of installation of my windows, i tried openning
narrater via its shortcut and i did not have any voice.
i am sure that the narrator is not installed in my system.

On 12/6/16, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for
it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS,
and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and
10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes
are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few
songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

If you have a TRUE and complete installation of XP, you definitely
should have Narrator.


Press the Win-R combo, and type in

narrator

and hit Enter. A screen should come up, and from memory, it seems to me
you have to do a setting or two, the first time you run Narrator, so as
to have it automatically load when it is called.


If your system does not respond at all, when you call Narrator, then
your system is rather sure to have a modified installation, something
broken on the disk, or some other sort of serious trouble. A complete
reinstall might be considered.


And, Please note, if you scroll the menus of XP, you will NOT see
Narrator listed. If you do a disk search, I am ready to think it will
not come up as a choice either. That is why, I several times the last
few days, have informed through different messages here on the list,
that you need to start the Narrator manually. Unless you do it that way,
I am not aware of any water-proofed way under XP, to start Narrator. I
do know there was a hotkey that was told to do the starting of Narrator,
but none of my XP versions did honor that hotkey. So again, open the run
dialog, by hitting Win-R, and type Narrator, confirm with Enter.


When you have tested, come back with your results.


From your description, of the many issues you have, I would strongly
recommend you do a scan with some sort of security software, or do a
system cleanup with something like CCleaner, which should be OK
accessible with NVDA. Very likely your system might be loaded down with
some bugs. And most definitely so, if you have never done such system care.


And, just for the records, all you who thinks this is due to an XP user;
the big news is that the very same conclusion would have been reached,
no matter which flavor of Windows you run - new or obsolete. Smiles.


If you do decide NOT to heed any of the encouragements to do a system
scan and cleanup, sure thing it is up to you. But noone will be able to
solve an issue of yours, should it all be due to you refusing doing any
such care-taking of your system. Then you will only load the list with
numerous issues, cause everyone to try helping you out, spending time on
testing, imagining what could be wrong, type in many handfuls of
messages to you; all in vain. Long as the bug sits on your computer, and
you refuse to find it with the tools available (even for free), that is
a choice of yours, and I will respect that.


But as I have clearly stated here, if you do not have a basic feature of
Windows, like Narrator, your system sounds to me to be hacked in some
way. Not saying that is do to you doing something wron, except from
refusing to cleanup, but it could be a former owner of the computer that
has meddled and tricked the whole system.



I do not want to sound harsh here, so please take all of this as
friendly reminders. You hopefully will find the root of the issues of
yours, but you likely will have to take the necessary steps to do so.
This reminder stands, not for you alone, but for the WHOLE community. Do
you want help, then take the help you can get, or at least make sure you
know the consequences of your choices.


Hope someone can help you.

David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Hi,
The following may come across as a bit hard to swallow, but please bear with me:
A building that began to crumble from its foundation will soon collapse completely, but one can save many lives by evacuating its occupants in an orderly fashion.
Personally, I believe that we should prepare to say goodbye to XP soon, but do understand reasons why we should continue to accept patrons who comes from XP. In the old days, technology was a slow-moving car, but today, it is like a dew - fresh in the beginning, but dries up shortly after. This will accelerate more in coming months and years (for Windows 10 users, have you asked why there are two major upgrades in a span of one year?).
In case of XP support, one of the crucial components NVDA uses is written for latest Visual Studio in mind, and if this component moves to drop support for XP, NV Access will need to choose between moving on or keeping old version alive. Another thing to consider is the fact that newer Python versions dropped support for XP, and this is an even bigger issue, given that some developers want to move to Python 3. Ultimately, the mindset of screen reader users will determine to what extent NVDA and other screen readers will support XP and for how long.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:54 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

i realy wish and request that dont stop supporting of xp.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Er, ordered a hamburger but got a chicken sandwich instead...
Support for Windows XP depends on a number of things, the most
important being compiler support (NVDA isn't powered entirely by
Python; there are a couple components that are compiled by Visual
Studio compiler, and thankfully, the one NV Access uses supports compiling NVDA to run on XP).
There will indeed come a time when NVDA will drop support for XP, and
this list will be one of the firsts to know when this happens well in
advance of end of support date. Same fate is awaiting Windows Vista in
2017 - Windows Vista will be supported for a while though.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my
current programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines
when installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and
via vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not
accessible even with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs
powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of
windows and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to
solve this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this
means they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I
cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue
is that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall
over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even
bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not
impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where
they still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the
upgrade of the OS, and basically there might not be too much
more holes in XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows.
According to what I read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open
holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever reason are not
being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are not in
your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original
question re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there
are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and
everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash,
even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a
few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP
and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download
and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they
all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you
never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with
potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books
now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org


Libreoffice

Jorge Gonçalves
 

Hi everyone. I just rejoined this group.
I am using Libreoffice and I created a footnote. But Nvda is not reading it. Am I missing something or should I make some special configuration?
Cheers,
Jorge


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Gene
 

So you have the worst of both worlds.  XP, which is less secure, and no security programs, which anyone should have regardless of the version of Windows being used.  I'm not giving you a hard time but you have a very incorrect view of security programs, I should say of the reputable ones.  Knowledgeable list members will tell you that such programs are safe if you use reputable ones. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's great
> info!
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
> bglists@...> wrote:
>
>> Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is at
>> all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
>> windows code changes.
>> Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots are
>> very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and you
>> will find lots of things that no longer work due to the  security of that
>> operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a portable
>> app.
>> the big problem at present for those using XP is  the web browser.
>> Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work on
>> xp
>> with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd processors.
>> This is due to the lack of sse2  instruction set support on the amd
>> chips.
>> Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
>> processors at version 15,  though they do warn that this could change as
>> its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
>> is
>> 13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it working
>> on
>> such hardware.
>>
>> The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but his
>> month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
>> blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
>> I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe, but
>> seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
>> Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.
>>
>> I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what you
>> are doing.
>> Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that works
>> in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its preview
>> pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>> and
>> thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>
>>
>> Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?
>>>
>>>
>>> Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
>>> where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
>>> businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
>>> of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.
>>>
>>>
>>> A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:
>>>
>>> Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
>>> security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
>>> time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
>>> that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.
>>>
>>>
>>> From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
>>> who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
>>> Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
>>> do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
>>> that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
>>> risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
>>> machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
>>> And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
>>> whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
>>> continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
>>> chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
>>> well could be run on an offline, XP system.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
>>> commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
>>> basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
>>> newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
>>> seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
>>> reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
>>> not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
>>> Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
>>> are running.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
>>>
>>>> Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
>>>> microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
>>>> computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
>>>> says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
>>>> Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
>>>> will be then we will have to struggle with 10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> please, do not get rid of xp support.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
>>>>> <quentin@...>
>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
>>>>> although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
>>>>> Potplayer, it
>>>>> was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
>>>>> 7 as
>>>>> well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of
>>>>>> these problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> *From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
>>>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>> release,
>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
>>>>>> keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
>>>>>> play
>>>>>> MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
>>>>>> finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
>>>>>> again, I
>>>>>> couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quentin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
>>>>>> <jesusloves1966@...>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, That is true,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
>>>>>>> controls
>>>>>>> that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
>>>>>>> powful in
>>>>>>> win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>> Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Moore
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
>>>>>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just for your correction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
>>>>>>> holds
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
>>>>>>> reader.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
>>>>>>> high-end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
>>>>>>> expect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
>>>>>>> install at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
>>>>>>> determine if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
>>>>>>> 60
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is workable or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
>>>>>>> tech
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anything but Burger-King?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > gene.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > me too, use windows xp service pack 3
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > you should only press the application keys and you can access to
>>>>>>> > all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > menus and options by normal arrow keys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > i should restart nvda to work as normal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
>>>>>>> >> ever
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> that.")
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
>>>>>>> encounters an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> issue with any software or combination of software:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> running the same operating system and similar overall
>>>>>>> >> configuration
>>>>>>> that you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> idiosyncratic problem with your own system
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
>>>>>>> >> given
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
>>>>>>> files >> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
>>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>>> "it's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having
>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> *Brian*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
>>>>>>> complete.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> you’re alive, it isn’t.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>     ~ Lauren Bacall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>> Training Material Developer
>>>>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>>>>> available:
>>>>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>>>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
>>>>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training Material Developer
> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> Ph +61 7 3149 3306
> Direct: +61 413 904 383
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




Admin. My thoughts as a moderator on Re: [nvda] personal messages - Keep them OFF the list

Gene
 

This sort of personal dispute doesn't happen often and, unless it continues beyond a message or two, I generally don't do anything about such disputes unless they are rude to the point where something really needs to be said. 
 
This thread is probably going to illustrate one reason why.  discussing this question is probably going to generate much more traffic than the one or two message exchanges being discussed if just left to stop. 
 
And, to reduce list traffic on this topic, will people please reply to my message using the write to owner's address instead of on list.  The address is at the bottom of every message and is
This brings up a point that goes beyond this thread.  Blind people far too often don't look at anything more than is specifically known to be of interest to them.  Being curious and exploring material such as footers on e-mail messages from the various list you are on or looking around programs or web pages to learn more about their features and layout, may give you useful information.  Now back to the discussion at hand.
 
Another reason such discussions  take place on list is that blind people chronically don't know how to write to people off list.  They don't know how this is done in their specific e-mail programs.  Which makes it likely that such exchanges will transpire on list. 
 It isn't practical to instruct list members how to do this with their specific program every time something goes to the list that shouldn't.  But I'm thinking of putting together an e-mail with instructions from members who use different e-mail programs and send instructions on how to send messages privately using popular programs such as Thunderbird and Windows Live Mail Outlook and perhaps the Mail app in Windows 10. 
Those who know how to do this using whatever e-mail program they use may send such instructions and I'll collect them and put them in one document. 
 
Such instructions might be worth reposting to the list perhaps monthly for new members to see.
 
Some lists don't show the e-mail address of the sender but this list does show them if you know how to find them in messages. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] personal messages - Keep them OFF the list

I'd agree with this, and I'm sure the moderators would as well.
 This does generate high traffic and its the subject lines we use to sift
what we need to read and what we do not, so when any  topic drifts, it needs
to be altered in the subject line to  make this plain.

Also, and I'm not up innocent on this one, commenting multiple times on
different bits of a conversation can prove tedious to read.
 My one excuse here is that the feed I'm getting seems to come in batches,
so I'm just making up a reply and sending it and as if by magic, a load of
mail appears from before  the one I've replied to, either making what I said
pointless, or making it  that I need to do another message.
 Not ideal, but I guess it depends on the way the email system you use  gets
its messages and sends them to your account.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:14 AM
Subject: [nvda] personal messages - Keep them OFF the list


> Listers,
> May I be allowed to raise a polite and friendly reminder?
>
> I have only been subscribed to this list for something like a week, but
> have seen more than one message, where people get rather personal, and
> sometimes little nice to other members in particular. Undortunately,
> this disturbs the validity of the topic being discussed.
>
> Could it be an idea, for those who have anything unsolved with other
> listers, that you please rectify that in private, via direct mailing to
> the person you aim for? Meaning, could you please, for the benefit of
> all, keep posting to the list, ONLY what REALLY is meant for the public
> - the general group of listers. And, please, stick to the topic being
> discussed.
>
> I just find it disappointing to read your dashing each other. And it
> really does take the discussion nowhere.
>
> Please?
>
>
>
>




Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Hi,
Yes, you could have used 2015.3 for a number of months. Can you try using it today to see if the problem happens?
Also, a small favor from those using XP: can you also test Potpoayer while using NVDA 2015.3 versus 2016.3 and see if you can duplicate this problem? Also, can you reproduce this when exiting Potplayer while something is playing?
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

i did not understand exactly.
but i used 2015.3 for many months and i am sure that i did not have this problem on that version!

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
I think there is a miscommunication going on. Before we continue, I'd
like to ask you one more time to test NVDA 2015.3 with Potplayer today
(not 2016.3, but with 2015.3). In other words, what I'm trying to say is this:
don't assume that newer versions doesn't work - it is sometimes
helpful to revisit an old topic in hopes of discovering what's new and
changed, and for this context, testing 2015.3 with Potplayer could
help us determine what's up today (in December 2016).
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the
latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

hi joseph again.
yes. its the only problem in nvda 2015.4 and latest versions.
i am not a programmer to test the code, but i am completely sure that
i did not have this problem before version 15.4 of nvda.
i dont have another windows to test, but as i mentioned in my issue in
github, one of my friends told that i have this problem in windows7
using windows media player!
i think that everythings works with kmplayer Good and vlc and i did
not test with other players.
myself, only tested with kmplayer and potplayer and mentioned the
result for you.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the
meat inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate
further, otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be
willing to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness
to test on multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious
questions, these include questions such as time (then and now), steps
to reproduce (commands and expected output), reports from other
testers (similar software versions, for instance) and others. Also,
what users can do to help me and other developers is providing a
clearer picture of what's going on (for this reason, I personally
will not investigate something unless you tell me and others steps to
reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios and
source code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a
while, I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others)
a little more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs
powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of
windows and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to
solve this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this
means they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I
cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue
is that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall
over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where
they still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the
upgrade of the OS, and basically there might not be too much
more holes in XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows.
According to what I read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open
holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever reason are not
being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are not in
your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original
question re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there
are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and
everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash,
even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a
few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP
and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download
and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they
all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you
never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with
potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books
now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org


Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

i realy wish and request that dont stop supporting of xp.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Er, ordered a hamburger but got a chicken sandwich instead...
Support for Windows XP depends on a number of things, the most important
being compiler support (NVDA isn't powered entirely by Python; there are a
couple components that are compiled by Visual Studio compiler, and
thankfully, the one NV Access uses supports compiling NVDA to run on XP).
There will indeed come a time when NVDA will drop support for XP, and this
list will be one of the firsts to know when this happens well in advance of
end of support date. Same fate is awaiting Windows Vista in 2017 - Windows
Vista will be supported for a while though.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my current
programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines when
installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and via
vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not accessible even
with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked
it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose
a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

i did not understand exactly.
but i used 2015.3 for many months and i am sure that i did not have
this problem on that version!

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
I think there is a miscommunication going on. Before we continue, I'd like
to ask you one more time to test NVDA 2015.3 with Potplayer today (not
2016.3, but with 2015.3). In other words, what I'm trying to say is this:
don't assume that newer versions doesn't work - it is sometimes helpful to
revisit an old topic in hopes of discovering what's new and changed, and for
this context, testing 2015.3 with Potplayer could help us determine what's
up today (in December 2016).
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph again.
yes. its the only problem in nvda 2015.4 and latest versions.
i am not a programmer to test the code, but i am completely sure that i did
not have this problem before version 15.4 of nvda.
i dont have another windows to test, but as i mentioned in my issue in
github, one of my friends told that i have this problem in windows7 using
windows media player!
i think that everythings works with kmplayer Good and vlc and i did not test
with other players.
myself, only tested with kmplayer and potplayer and mentioned the result for
you.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the
meat inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate
further, otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be
willing to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness
to test on multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious
questions, these include questions such as time (then and now), steps
to reproduce (commands and expected output), reports from other
testers (similar software versions, for instance) and others. Also,
what users can do to help me and other developers is providing a
clearer picture of what's going on (for this reason, I personally will
not investigate something unless you tell me and others steps to
reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios and source
code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a
while, I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others) a
little more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Hi,
I think there is a miscommunication going on. Before we continue, I'd like to ask you one more time to test NVDA 2015.3 with Potplayer today (not 2016.3, but with 2015.3). In other words, what I'm trying to say is this: don't assume that newer versions doesn't work - it is sometimes helpful to revisit an old topic in hopes of discovering what's new and changed, and for this context, testing 2015.3 with Potplayer could help us determine what's up today (in December 2016).
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph again.
yes. its the only problem in nvda 2015.4 and latest versions.
i am not a programmer to test the code, but i am completely sure that i did not have this problem before version 15.4 of nvda.
i dont have another windows to test, but as i mentioned in my issue in github, one of my friends told that i have this problem in windows7 using windows media player!
i think that everythings works with kmplayer Good and vlc and i did not test with other players.
myself, only tested with kmplayer and potplayer and mentioned the result for you.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the
meat inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate
further, otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be
willing to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness
to test on multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious
questions, these include questions such as time (then and now), steps
to reproduce (commands and expected output), reports from other
testers (similar software versions, for instance) and others. Also,
what users can do to help me and other developers is providing a
clearer picture of what's going on (for this reason, I personally will
not investigate something unless you tell me and others steps to
reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios and source
code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a
while, I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others) a little more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org


Re: Google Chrome Browser

Chris Mullins
 

Hi Andrea

I have a Word document I wrote several months ago which explains how to set Chrome up to your personal preferences which I can send in Word or text form if it’s any good to you.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea Sherry
Sent: 6 December 2016 06:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Google Chrome Browser

 

Need a beginners' guide for the browser please.

Where can I obtain such?

Andrea


Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Hi,
Er, ordered a hamburger but got a chicken sandwich instead...
Support for Windows XP depends on a number of things, the most important being compiler support (NVDA isn't powered entirely by Python; there are a couple components that are compiled by Visual Studio compiler, and thankfully, the one NV Access uses supports compiling NVDA to run on XP). There will indeed come a time when NVDA will drop support for XP, and this list will be one of the firsts to know when this happens well in advance of end of support date. Same fate is awaiting Windows Vista in 2017 - Windows Vista will be supported for a while though.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my current programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines when installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and via vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not accessible even with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked
it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose
a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org


Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

hi joseph again.
yes. its the only problem in nvda 2015.4 and latest versions.
i am not a programmer to test the code, but i am completely sure that
i did not have this problem before version 15.4 of nvda.
i dont have another windows to test, but as i mentioned in my issue in
github, one of my friends told that i have this problem in windows7
using windows media player!
i think that everythings works with kmplayer Good and vlc and i did
not test with other players.
myself, only tested with kmplayer and potplayer and mentioned the
result for you.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the meat
inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate further,
otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be willing
to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness to test on
multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious questions, these
include questions such as time (then and now), steps to reproduce (commands
and expected output), reports from other testers (similar software versions,
for instance) and others. Also, what users can do to help me and other
developers is providing a clearer picture of what's going on (for this
reason, I personally will not investigate something unless you tell me and
others steps to reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios
and source code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a while,
I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others) a little
more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant recognize
what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside nvda,
because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system, screen
readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all versions,
was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4,
because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin mentioned,
is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve
the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins, visual
appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and crashes
of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to the
many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows and
also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is regression
from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer work
due to the security of that operating system not allowing access
to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with
amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates by
nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that
its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor
of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and
any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but
its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on
a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi,

A much better way would be to decouple this command from remote add-on somehow (right now, according to the source code of this add-on, this is hard-coded due to technical reasons).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.


Re: accidentally had the NVDA messages go to a different folder

Gene
 

You aren't out of options.  There are probably people who would work with you in real time by phone or Skipe or however you agree on.  I'm not sure what you are doing wrong.  As I recall from lookijg at Thunderbird years ago and a bit since, for moving mail to a folder, you open a combo box of folders.  Use alt down arrow, the standard way to open combo boxes.  Then up or down arrow to the folder you want and press enter.  That may be where you are doing something incorrectly. 
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] accidentally had the NVDA messages go to a different folder

Hi, Quentin,


I'm thinking seriously of switching to a different email program. I tried everything from changing the choose folder to reading the mozilla help page. I don't know what else to do. I'm out of options. Whart email program do you use?


Thanks for trying to help though. I really do appreciate your help.


Rosemarie




On 12/5/2016 9:35 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Rosemarie,

I must admit I don't currently have Thunderbird installed, but I found Mozilla's help page on working with filters for you: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-using-filters  It does say to click on this that and the other, so you will need to substitute for the keyboard as needed, but at least it tells you what controls you need to get to.  The main thing you need to change is the "Choose folder" drop down after the "Move message to" drop down.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Quentin,


I'm using mozilla thunderbird as my email program. What would I change to move this message from the wrong list to the NVDA one?


Thanks.


Rosemarie




On 12/5/2016 8:55 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Hi Rosemarie,

If you follow the same steps as you used to create the filter or rule that moves the NVDA messages, you should get to the point just before creating a new rule, where instead you can move through the existing rules, select the NVDA one and edit it.  Then you can go through until you get to the option to choose the folder, and change it there.

The exact steps will depend on which e-mail program you are using.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:
Hi, everyone,


I think I just figured out what happened. When I was trying to filter my messages to go to the NVDA folder, they accidentally went to a different folder of another list. How do I change this?


Rosemarie









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 



Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the meat inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today. Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate further, otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be willing to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness to test on multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious questions, these include questions such as time (then and now), steps to reproduce (commands and expected output), reports from other testers (similar software versions, for instance) and others. Also, what users can do to help me and other developers is providing a clearer picture of what's going on (for this reason, I personally will not investigate something unless you tell me and others steps to reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios and source code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a while, I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others) a little more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system, screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins, visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer work
due to the security of that operating system not allowing access
to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with
amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates by
nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that
its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor
of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and
any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but
its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on
a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org