Hi,
I think there is a miscommunication going on. Before we continue, I'd
like to ask you one more time to test NVDA 2015.3 with Potplayer today
(not 2016.3, but with 2015.3). In other words, what I'm trying to say is this:
don't assume that newer versions doesn't work - it is sometimes
helpful to revisit an old topic in hopes of discovering what's new and
changed, and for this context, testing 2015.3 with Potplayer could
help us determine what's up today (in December 2016).
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the
latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

hi joseph again.
yes. its the only problem in nvda 2015.4 and latest versions.
i am not a programmer to test the code, but i am completely sure that
i did not have this problem before version 15.4 of nvda.
i dont have another windows to test, but as i mentioned in my issue in
github, one of my friends told that i have this problem in windows7
using windows media player!
i think that everythings works with kmplayer Good and vlc and i did
not test with other players.
myself, only tested with kmplayer and potplayer and mentioned the
result for you.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the
meat inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate
further, otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be
willing to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness
to test on multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious
questions, these include questions such as time (then and now), steps
to reproduce (commands and expected output), reports from other
testers (similar software versions, for instance) and others. Also,
what users can do to help me and other developers is providing a
clearer picture of what's going on (for this reason, I personally
will not investigate something unless you tell me and others steps to
reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios and
source code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a
while, I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others)
a little more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs
powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of
windows and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to
solve this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this
means they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I
cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue
is that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall
over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where
they still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the
upgrade of the OS, and basically there might not be too much
more holes in XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows.
According to what I read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open
holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever reason are not
being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are not in
your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original
question re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there
are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and
everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash,
even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a
few things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP
and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download
and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they
all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you
never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with
potplayer menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books
now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Hi,
Er, ordered a hamburger but got a chicken sandwich instead...
Support for Windows XP depends on a number of things, the most important
being compiler support (NVDA isn't powered entirely by Python; there are a
couple components that are compiled by Visual Studio compiler, and
thankfully, the one NV Access uses supports compiling NVDA to run on XP).
There will indeed come a time when NVDA will drop support for XP, and this
list will be one of the firsts to know when this happens well in advance of
end of support date. Same fate is awaiting Windows Vista in 2017 - Windows
Vista will be supported for a while though.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my current
programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines when
installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and via
vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not accessible even
with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked
it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose
a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org

Hi,
I think there is a miscommunication going on. Before we continue, I'd like
to ask you one more time to test NVDA 2015.3 with Potplayer today (not
2016.3, but with 2015.3). In other words, what I'm trying to say is this:
don't assume that newer versions doesn't work - it is sometimes helpful to
revisit an old topic in hopes of discovering what's new and changed, and for
this context, testing 2015.3 with Potplayer could help us determine what's
up today (in December 2016).
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Potplayer was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph again.
yes. its the only problem in nvda 2015.4 and latest versions.
i am not a programmer to test the code, but i am completely sure that i did
not have this problem before version 15.4 of nvda.
i dont have another windows to test, but as i mentioned in my issue in
github, one of my friends told that i have this problem in windows7 using
windows media player!
i think that everythings works with kmplayer Good and vlc and i did not test
with other players.
myself, only tested with kmplayer and potplayer and mentioned the result for
you.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the
meat inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate
further, otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be
willing to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness
to test on multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious
questions, these include questions such as time (then and now), steps
to reproduce (commands and expected output), reports from other
testers (similar software versions, for instance) and others. Also,
what users can do to help me and other developers is providing a
clearer picture of what's going on (for this reason, I personally will
not investigate something unless you tell me and others steps to
reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios and source
code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a
while, I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others) a
little more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org

Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the
meat inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate
further, otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be
willing to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness
to test on multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious
questions, these include questions such as time (then and now), steps
to reproduce (commands and expected output), reports from other
testers (similar software versions, for instance) and others. Also,
what users can do to help me and other developers is providing a
clearer picture of what's going on (for this reason, I personally will
not investigate something unless you tell me and others steps to
reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios and source
code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a
while, I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others) a little more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
nasrin khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Need a beginners' guide for the browser please.

Where can I obtain such?

Andrea

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@blueyonder.co.uk,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked
it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose
a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Hi,
Changed the subject, as the seal on the envelope does not match the meat
inside...
Another variable to test is time: suppose you install NVDA 2015.3 today.
Does the problem happen today? If not, then we should investigate further,
otherwise, this is specific to your system.
For others helping this person: more often than not, you should be willing
to ask not so obvious questions, and should have willingness to test on
multiple versions of Windows. In case of not so obvious questions, these
include questions such as time (then and now), steps to reproduce (commands
and expected output), reports from other testers (similar software versions,
for instance) and others. Also, what users can do to help me and other
developers is providing a clearer picture of what's going on (for this
reason, I personally will not investigate something unless you tell me and
others steps to reproduce a problem so we can investigate various scenarios
and source code; I do not expect this kind of rigorous investigation from
beginners, but for those who've been members of this community for a while,
I'd like to suggest helping us (Quentin, Derek, I and others) a little
more).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:20 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant recognize
what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside nvda,
because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system, screen
readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all versions,
was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4,
because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin mentioned,
is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve
the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins, visual
appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and crashes
of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to the
many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows and
also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is regression
from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer work
due to the security of that operating system not allowing access
to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with
amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates by
nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that
its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor
of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and
any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but
its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on
a given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

Cheers

Chris

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

Hi, Quentin,

I'm thinking seriously of switching to a different email program. I tried everything from changing the choose folder to reading the mozilla help page. I don't know what else to do. I'm out of options. Whart email program do you use?

Thanks for trying to help though. I really do appreciate your help.

Rosemarie

Hi Rosemarie,

I must admit I don't currently have Thunderbird installed, but I found Mozilla's help page on working with filters for you: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/organize-your-messages-using-filters  It does say to click on this that and the other, so you will need to substitute for the keyboard as needed, but at least it tells you what controls you need to get to.  The main thing you need to change is the "Choose folder" drop down after the "Move message to" drop down.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Quentin,

I'm using mozilla thunderbird as my email program. What would I change to move this message from the wrong list to the NVDA one?

Thanks.

Rosemarie

On 12/5/2016 8:55 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Hi Rosemarie,

If you follow the same steps as you used to create the filter or rule that moves the NVDA messages, you should get to the point just before creating a new rule, where instead you can move through the existing rules, select the NVDA one and edit it.  Then you can go through until you get to the option to choose the folder, and change it there.

The exact steps will depend on which e-mail program you are using.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, everyone,


I think I just figured out what happened. When I was trying to filter my messages to go to the NVDA folder, they accidentally went to a different folder of another list. How do I change this?


Rosemarie

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer

Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer work
due to the security of that operating system not allowing access
to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with
amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates by
nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that
its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
- where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it
either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor
of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally, I do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply
because I have software that is needed for certain tasks, which
would not impose a security risk, but which cannot be run under
newer Windows. That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I
still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and
any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but
its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on
a given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

I assume however that the windows 10 mail app does not do usenet groups,
something I use all the time hence the hack to outlook express as Live mail

is a bit of a pig at the best of times.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Moore" <jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows live mail and windows 10


Hi Rosemarie,
I will help you with the mail app. I use it all the time, and it works very

well.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 7:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] windows live mail and windows 10

Hi, David,

Thanks so much for your reply. I'm not sure where I'll go from here if I
leave thunderbird. I've tried everything I know to organize my messages with

that program but nothing I do works. Guess I could either go back to outlook

or try the mail ap again.

Rosemarie



On 12/5/2016 4:54 PM, David Moore wrote:
Hi Rosemarie,
Yes it will, but there will be no more support from MS after January. It is

being phased out, so if you use it, there will be no more security up dates

for it.
David Moore
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 7:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] windows live mail and windows 10

Hi, everyone,


Will windows live mail work well with the latest version of windows 10?
I'm thinking of leaving thunderbird if windows live mail will work. I
know you can't create message filters with windows live if you have an
immap account but I can deal with it.


Thanks for your help in advance.


Rosemarie

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:

You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of

these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@hotmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.

thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

me too, use windows xp service pack 3

you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.

you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all

menus and options by normal arrow keys.

only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.

i should restart nvda to work as normal.

On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever

anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything

wrong
with

that.")

So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone

encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:

* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem

there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but

others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration

that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an

idiosyncratic problem with your own system

I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given

problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two

programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL

files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.

I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but

these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when

"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a

detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

--

*Brian*

*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is

complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*

~ Lauren Bacall

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

.

--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org