Date   
Re: NVDA and Open Office

Quentin Christensen
 


Chris,

Good question.  HowToGeek wrote a long article explaining more than you ever need to know on that subject here: http://www.howtogeek.com/187663/openoffice-vs.-libreoffice-whats-the-difference-and-which-should-you-use/

To summarise, it started as one project and then for a number of reasons forked into two.  LibreOffice currently seems to be updated more often but from an overall perspective, the feature sets of the two are largely similar.



On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...> wrote:
What're the differences in the two?

Chris.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Kingett" <kingettr@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Open Office


It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in every other way.










--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


I agree with every single thing you're saying, but again, I'm not the one who makes the decisions of what systems and OS's we run.
 
If it were me, we'd not have an xp machine in this whole company, but, lamentably, I don't get that luxury.
 
Chris.
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Chris,

          I think that anyone who's ever worked for anyone else who supplied computer equipment knows that you're at the mercy of your employer's decisions, and those decisions often have nothing to do with what makes the most long-term sense.

          That being said, I think the question, "Why are you sticking with XP?," is directed at those who have the ability (and that includes finances, we all get forces of economics) to change, but don't.  The most frequent reason I hear is a variant on, "Because that's what I'm used to."  Well, you weren't when you first started using it and every version of Windows except Windows 8, which was a weird change in a lot of ways, has a very strong set of roots in its predecessors.  I see that more in Windows 10 than I ever did in 8 or 8.1 - those two releases seemed to be when Microsoft was thinking about the world as if it was all touch-screen and tablet oriented and that desktop computers would be passe.  Win 10 has wedded pretty much all that I liked up through Win7 with the few things I liked in Win8 as well as throwing in some very useful new stuff.  My clients who have gone from Win7 to Win10 seem less traumatized by the transition than going from Win7 to Win8 or Win8.1.

          At this time, barring outside forces such as the ones you're dealing with, it makes very little business sense or computing sense to keep nursing Windows XP along if you're using it in cyberspace connected environments.  It's a huge security risk just do to what's not been patched for almost 3 years now in the OS and sometimes longer in the third-party software on it.

           I've said it before, and not only about Windows, either, but there is a great advantage to transitioning to a newer OS not on the bleeding edge, but when there's a huge cohort doing it at the same time.  Right now the ability to find Windows 10 information that's up to the minute and widely available is very high.  As time goes by that decreases, and people no longer have it "fresh on their minds" when it comes to questions about what they did to get a specific setting tweaked, for instance.  I couldn't tell you now probably way more than half of what I used to know like the back of my hand about Windows XP because it's been years since any employer I've worked for used it or I've used it as my primary OS.  In certain respects the same thing will occur with Windows 10, too, well before it's replaced because so many things are "set it and forget it," both literally and figuratively.

Back to the subject:  Third-Party developers tend to drop active support for a given OS very shortly after the OS manufacturer does.  Backward compatibility may exist for a while "by chance," but it will eventually be terminated when there's a conflict between being able to create what the developers believe is an improved product that runs on a supported OS and backward compatibility.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    


Re: Only speak pressed keyboard characters and nothing else

Quentin Christensen
 

There are options you can turn off which will reduce what is announced, although nothing that will directly do what you are asking.  If you are using the built-in eSpeak NG voice, sometimes pressing SHIFT can stop speech a little quicker than control.  Shift actually pauses NVDA - and pressing shift again continues speaking exactly where it left off.  Control stops speech and does not have a corresponding "continue" function.

Some options you could turn off:

- Everything in the document formatting dialog (NVDA+control+d) - this dialog controls whether NVDA announces text changes (eg bold or change in alignment), elements such as lists or headings on web pages etc.

- Everything on the Object presentation dialog (NVDA+control+o).

- Automatic say all on page load, in Browse mode settings (NVDA+control+b) which controls whether web pages are automatically read out as they finish loading.

Otherwise, there isn't an option (or group of options) that will do exactly what you want.  Those I highlighted will do some, which may be enough.

Otherwise, I would recommend learning more about NVDA - once you understand what it is reading, it is easier to ignore the parts that you don't need at that moment.  We have started offering a range of training modules.  I'd recommend the Basic Training for NVDA to start with as it contains most things you need to know.

Regards

Quentin.


On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 5:52 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Simply press control to stop the announcement.  Control stops speech.  Or take some other action such as down arrowing or whatever you want to do on the site.  You don't have to wait for speech to stop.  Screen-readers are designed to stop old speech and speak what you currently are doing. 
 
Similarly, when up or down arrowing in a document, as an example, if a line is being read, when you up or down arrow or move in other ways or type a letter, old speech will stop and the new line you have moved to will be read.  Or is you move the cursor to the next letter or word, it will be spoken.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
 

From: Yair pc
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Only speak pressed keyboard characters and nothing else

Thanks Gene, I'm indeed looking for it to announce the letters without announcing windows, but I do need the letters to still type normally.
It's not easy to get used to the window announcements because it sometimes mean a very long annoucement (i.e. the title of the Chrome browser, is the title of the website, and such title can be a minute long). For someone who can still partially see, this is too much so that screen reader is rejected, although some other announcements can still be very helpful.
 
Maybe there is a solution for the too long window title announcements instead? (Can anounce just a short prefix of it, or an extension can tell the browser to crop the title...)
 
Regarding my original question, I understand that removing window announcement is not right for everyone, but as the eyesight degrades, I think this is a good first step to getting used to announcements in a small dose (just typed letters for now).
 
 
Thanks,
Yair
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 at 8:18 PM
From: Gene <gsasner@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Only speak pressed keyboard characters and nothing else
It isn't clear what you want.  Do you want the computer to continue to work with commands or type when you are in a word processor, but just announce letters and nothing such as what window you are in if you move from window to window?  There is nothing like that and it would be very difficult for people with a number of windows opened to function if the window you move to isn't announced.
 
NVDA does have a feature that will announce what keys are if you press them but the keys won't do anything.  This is to allow people to famaliarize themselves with commands and look for commands without the computer taking any actions.  It also announces letters and numbers and some other things.
 
The command is NVDA key 1 that is 1 on the main keyboard. 
 
You can turn this command on and hold the insert key and press various functionkeys as well, such as f1, f2, etc. to see what they do.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Yair pc
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Only speak pressed keyboard characters and nothing else
 
I'm looking for a way to make every key press in the keyboard speek (report/announce/echo) the letter name.
This seems like a good start to accomodate to screen readers noise, I will add other announcements later on.
 
Is there a way to disable all other announcements in NVDA (i.e. not hear the titles of the focued window etc.)
I tried to de-select everything but the character speeking but there is till a lot of speeking when changing focus.
 
I tried Windows Narrator too but had the same issue.
This is a very simply feature, even useful for people learning to touch type, there must be some utility that offers just that for Windows (even if not using NVDA)...
 
Thanks,
Yair
 
 
 
 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Chris,

          I think that anyone who's ever worked for anyone else who supplied computer equipment knows that you're at the mercy of your employer's decisions, and those decisions often have nothing to do with what makes the most long-term sense.

          That being said, I think the question, "Why are you sticking with XP?," is directed at those who have the ability (and that includes finances, we all get forces of economics) to change, but don't.  The most frequent reason I hear is a variant on, "Because that's what I'm used to."  Well, you weren't when you first started using it and every version of Windows except Windows 8, which was a weird change in a lot of ways, has a very strong set of roots in its predecessors.  I see that more in Windows 10 than I ever did in 8 or 8.1 - those two releases seemed to be when Microsoft was thinking about the world as if it was all touch-screen and tablet oriented and that desktop computers would be passe.  Win 10 has wedded pretty much all that I liked up through Win7 with the few things I liked in Win8 as well as throwing in some very useful new stuff.  My clients who have gone from Win7 to Win10 seem less traumatized by the transition than going from Win7 to Win8 or Win8.1.

          At this time, barring outside forces such as the ones you're dealing with, it makes very little business sense or computing sense to keep nursing Windows XP along if you're using it in cyberspace connected environments.  It's a huge security risk just do to what's not been patched for almost 3 years now in the OS and sometimes longer in the third-party software on it.

           I've said it before, and not only about Windows, either, but there is a great advantage to transitioning to a newer OS not on the bleeding edge, but when there's a huge cohort doing it at the same time.  Right now the ability to find Windows 10 information that's up to the minute and widely available is very high.  As time goes by that decreases, and people no longer have it "fresh on their minds" when it comes to questions about what they did to get a specific setting tweaked, for instance.  I couldn't tell you now probably way more than half of what I used to know like the back of my hand about Windows XP because it's been years since any employer I've worked for used it or I've used it as my primary OS.  In certain respects the same thing will occur with Windows 10, too, well before it's replaced because so many things are "set it and forget it," both literally and figuratively.

Back to the subject:  Third-Party developers tend to drop active support for a given OS very shortly after the OS manufacturer does.  Backward compatibility may exist for a while "by chance," but it will eventually be terminated when there's a conflict between being able to create what the developers believe is an improved product that runs on a supported OS and backward compatibility.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    


Re: NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number keys do

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Gene,

Very good point.  I can't directly answer how easy or hard it is to fix.  Off the top of my head, I would hazard a guess that it shouldn't be hard, but I'll have to wait until Mick or Jamie can answer that and whether there was any reason for not including the functionality already.

In any case, I filed an issue for it: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/6621

Regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 5:24 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I didn't realize this until now but I was playing with input help today and I found that NVDA doesn't announce what shifted number keys do nor what shifted items such as punctuation keys do.  If you hold shift and press a number key, you will hear something like shift plus and then the number is announced.  That doesn't give useful information.  What if I wanted to find the dollar sign.  I couldn't do so using input help.  And I couldn't know from input help that shift slash is the question mark.  I'd hear something like shift plus slash.  Why is this the case and can it be changed without unreasonable effort?
 
Gene




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Not to be rude, but I'm sticking with it, because number 1, this system running it still works, and hasn't yet died on me, and I bwelieve in pushing systems to their max lifetime. Secondly, one of the internal programs we use at work though supported by Windows 10 heavily relies on jaws scripts. Unfortunately, the developer of those scripts died from a massive heart attack, bless his heart, back when XP was! still supported. Enough things have changed with UI automation and such that the scripts do not work with anything above XP. This program is such that without the scripts, or an NVDA addon, the app is completely useless from a blind standpoint. I can't go into much, but I'll say it's our clientelle CMS system. I'm legally not allowed to reveal the actual name of the system we use for confidentiality reasonings, but I can! tell you this: the company did try outsourcing another dev to try making an NVDA addon, but no luck was gained. The developer evaluated the application and said it would be too complex, and too complicated to effectively deploy where it would be worthwhile.

Could we switch to another CMS? Well, yeah, if the CEO would agree to do so, but right now, that's not a project I can take on at my level of departmentship.

So, I really don't have much of a choice at this point. It's either keep XP around, or lose my job. Did I say it's ideal? No I didn't. But, it's what I have to work with, so, that's that. I do own a Windows 10 machine quite obviously, but for work purposes, I still have to often rely on this dinosaur, and trust me. I asked. There is no way to access our system from the mac, nor from Linux, or trust me, I'd do it.

Chris.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rosemarie Chavarria" <knitqueen2007@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Windows XP stopped being supported 2 years ago. Why do you still want to stay with it?




On 12/6/2016 4:53 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i realy wish and request that dont stop supporting of xp.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Er, ordered a hamburger but got a chicken sandwich instead...
Support for Windows XP depends on a number of things, the most important
being compiler support (NVDA isn't powered entirely by Python; there are a
couple components that are compiled by Visual Studio compiler, and
thankfully, the one NV Access uses supports compiling NVDA to run on XP).
There will indeed come a time when NVDA will drop support for XP, and this
list will be one of the firsts to know when this happens well in advance of
end of support date. Same fate is awaiting Windows Vista in 2017 - Windows
Vista will be supported for a while though.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my current
programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines when
installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and via
vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not accessible even
with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked
it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose
a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org







Re: how to unsubscribe

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi,


Here's the address for unsubscribing. It's


nvda+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io.


Hope this helps.


Rosemarie




On 12/6/2016 3:20 AM, Fanus wrote:
Hello list
I try to unsubscribe by using the link at the bottom of an email but I ge6t an error that the page timed out. How do I unsubscribe via email?
Regards
Fanus
 
 
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 8:27 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Fixing my e-mail display name issue.
 
On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 09:48 am, Gene wrote:
That isn't what is being described.

That wasn't entirely clear, either.  However, I've just changed my subscription to "all messages" via e-mail and will see what this one shows up as under Thunderbird and Windows Live Mail.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

   

 


Re: Folders or Separate Accounts

 

Jeff,

         Now it occurs to me that the Windows 10 group does allow attachments.  I am going to reply over there and attach my step-by-steps for creating filters and labels/folders in Gmail as well as how to configure your Google Account such that 2-step verification is not necessary and virtually any e-mail client will work with it.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    


Re: nvda rule not working in thunderbird

Gene New Zealand <hurrikennyandopo@...>
 

Hi Rosemarie


I just set up a filter in mozilla thunderbird under one of my accounts.
it is the one i use for my website, but not the main one where my emails
from the list come in. I done it as a test run.


When the emails come into the inbox as a example because the filter is
set up any of the emails will go to a folder called nvda emails. I just
tested it and it works.


I did not really go into any other configurations, as there are plenty
to choose from.


Depending how you have it set and what you specify is what it will do.


if others are interested in how to do it as well, i will either write up
something or do a audio tutorial on how to do it, then post it as well
on the accessible email client mozilla thunderbird page on my website.


Gene nz

On 7/12/2016 6:11 AM, Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi, everyone,


I have all the other rules set up ok but the one for the NVDA list
isn't working. Last night I was up almost until midnight trying to
correct the mistake I made. I tried everything I could think of to
make thunderbird put the NVDA messages in the correct folder. I don't
know what to do anymore. I'm having to move everything to that folder.
What could I be doing wrong?


Thanks for your help in advance.


Rosemarie





--
<b>Check out the new location of my accessibility central website for NVDA tutorials, NVDA road tested programs, and other eyesight related topics.
http://www.accessibilitycentral.net/ If you would like to keep up to date with whats being updated on our website, you can also follow us on facebook by visiting
the following link https://en-gb.facebook.com/people/AccessibilityCentral-Net/100009727930216
Also, check out which New Zealand libraries have the NVDA screen reader available by visiting the following link http://www.aotearoapeoplesnetwork.org/content/partner-libraries

Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Quentin Christensen
 

Nasrin,

I wasn't advocating switching to Linux.  For a sighted user, if it was primarily cost or not liking the newer versions of Windows, sure, Linux is free and works well on older hardware.  From an accessibility perspective, Linux isn't anywhere near where you are at with NVDA on Windows.

And no, we're not planning to end support for Windows XP.

Kind regards

Quentin.


On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:24 PM, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my
current programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines
when installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and
via vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not
accessible even with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
> hi joseph.
> yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
> i did not change an important option for accessibility.
>
>
> hi david.
> my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
> but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
> i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
> moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
> recognize what he says and what message does he read!
> and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
> nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
> screen readers are not compatible with each other.
> you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
> trouble, but for me it causes!
>
>
> hi gene.
> i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
> versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
> so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
> such problem.
> yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
> mentioned, is 1.6.63856
> but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
> myself.
> also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
> visual appearance, and its other settings.
> vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
> system.
> i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
> crashes of the program for me!
> and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
> i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
> the many websites.
> also, thanks so much for your link.
> i joined this and repeated my problem.
> the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!
>
>
> hi quentin.
> thanks extremely for your kindness.
> i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
> and also specific version of potplayer.
> i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
> regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.
>
> On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>> hi jacob.
>> thanks so much for helping me.
>>
>> can you please test many files with potplayer?
>> eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
>> this problem.
>>
>> On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
>>> hi david and quentin.
>>> i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
>>> i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
>>> software.
>>> i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!
>>>
>>> On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
>>>> You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
>>>> great
>>>> info!
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
>>>> bglists@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
>>>>> at
>>>>> all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
>>>>> windows code changes.
>>>>> Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
>>>>> are
>>>>> very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
>>>>> you
>>>>> will find lots of things that no longer work due to the  security of
>>>>> that
>>>>> operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
>>>>> portable
>>>>> app.
>>>>> the big problem at present for those using XP is  the web browser.
>>>>> Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
>>>>> on
>>>>> xp
>>>>> with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
>>>>> processors.
>>>>> This is due to the lack of sse2  instruction set support on the amd
>>>>> chips.
>>>>> Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
>>>>> processors at version 15,  though they do warn that this could change
>>>>> as
>>>>> its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
>>>>> Dropbox
>>>>> is
>>>>> 13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
>>>>> working
>>>>> on
>>>>> such hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
>>>>> his
>>>>> month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
>>>>> blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
>>>>> I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
>>>>> but
>>>>> seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
>>>>> Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
>>>>> you
>>>>> are doing.
>>>>> Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
>>>>> works
>>>>> in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
>>>>> preview
>>>>> pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> bglists@...
>>>>> Sent via blueyonder.
>>>>> Please address personal email to:-
>>>>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>>>>> in the display name field.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>>>>> and
>>>>> thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
>>>>>> where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
>>>>>> businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
>>>>>> validity
>>>>>> of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
>>>>>> software,
>>>>>> that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
>>>>>> who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
>>>>>> Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
>>>>>> Personally,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
>>>>>> risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
>>>>>> machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
>>>>>> And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
>>>>>> whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
>>>>>> continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
>>>>>> chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
>>>>>> well could be run on an offline, XP system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
>>>>>> basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
>>>>>> newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
>>>>>> seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
>>>>>> reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
>>>>>> not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are running.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
>>>>>>> honest
>>>>>>> microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
>>>>>>> computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
>>>>>>> microsoft
>>>>>>> says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>> Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
>>>>>>> will be then we will have to struggle with 10.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> please, do not get rid of xp support.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
>>>>>>>> <quentin@...>
>>>>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
>>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>>> although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
>>>>>>>> Potplayer, it
>>>>>>>> was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
>>>>>>>> Windows
>>>>>>>> 7 as
>>>>>>>> well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> these problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
>>>>>>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>> you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> play
>>>>>>>>> MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
>>>>>>>>> fine?
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
>>>>>>>>> again, I
>>>>>>>>> couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Quentin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
>>>>>>>>> <jesusloves1966@...>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi, That is true,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
>>>>>>>>>> controls
>>>>>>>>>> that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
>>>>>>>>>> powful in
>>>>>>>>>> win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
>>>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>>> Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
>>>>>>>>>> JAWS
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> David Moore
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
>>>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
>>>>>>>>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just for your correction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
>>>>>>>>>> true.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>> holds
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
>>>>>>>>>> out.
>>>>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
>>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
>>>>>>>>>> reader.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
>>>>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
>>>>>>>>>> high-end
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> expect.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
>>>>>>>>>> install at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
>>>>>>>>>> determine if
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> 60
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
>>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> is workable or not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
>>>>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
>>>>>>>>>> tech
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
>>>>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
>>>>>>>>>> tasted
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> anything but Burger-King?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > gene.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > me too, use windows xp service pack 3
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
>>>>>>>>>> > menus.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > you should only press the application keys and you can access
>>>>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>>>>> > all
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > menus and options by normal arrow keys.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
>>>>>>>>>> > unknown.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > i should restart nvda to work as normal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> > On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
>>>>>>>>>> >> ever
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
>>>>>>>>>> >> anything
>>>>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> that.")
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
>>>>>>>>>> encounters an
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> issue with any software or combination of software:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
>>>>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
>>>>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> running the same operating system and similar overall
>>>>>>>>>> >> configuration
>>>>>>>>>> that you
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
>>>>>>>>>> >> an
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> idiosyncratic problem with your own system
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
>>>>>>>>>> >> given
>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
>>>>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
>>>>>>>>>> files >> are
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
>>>>>>>>>> >> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
>>>>>>>>>> >> anything,
>>>>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
>>>>>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>>>>>> "it's
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
>>>>>>>>>> >> Having
>>>>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> *Brian*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
>>>>>>>>>> complete.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> you’re alive, it isn’t.*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>     ~ Lauren Bacall
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>>>>> Training Material Developer
>>>>>>>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>>>>>>>> available:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>>>>>>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
>>>>>>>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>>>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>> Training Material Developer
>>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>>> available:
>>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>
>>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306
>>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383
>>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
>>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>>> in the very authentic narration is:
>>> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
>>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>>> al-islam.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
>> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
>> in the very authentic narration is:
>> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
>> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
>> al-islam.org
>>
>
>
> --
> we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
> holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
> in the very authentic narration is:
> imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
> best website for studying islamic book in different languages
> al-islam.org
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

Re: Folders or Separate Accounts

Jeffrey Bohrman <jeffrey.bohrman@...>
 

Hi Brian!

 

Many thanks for your very informative response.  The good news is that I do have iMap on both my Outlook and in my iPhone mail as well.  I do, however, need to re-read to absorb it all and I see that Chris also has something to say to me.

 

Thanks, Brian, again.

 

Jeff

Re: Libreoffice

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Jorge,

I haven't used LIbreOffice in awhile.  The documentation indicates that you press control+page down to move to the footer - is that correct?  I got it from: https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Shortcut_Keys_for_Writer

I'll have to try it - I've been mostly concentrating on Microsoft Office lately as I've been writing the training material for that office suite, but I would like to get to LIbreOffice or Open Office.

In any case, if footnotes aren't reading, it would be worth filing an issue on our GitHub page: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues  Having a quick look, I can't see one already for this issue.  There is one for an error being generated in NVDA's log when you add footer text then switch to another program and back.  I wonder does it read the footer if you try immediately after creating it, and then not if you switch programs and bacK?

Regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:51 PM, Jorge Gonçalves <joport3@...> wrote:
Hi everyone. I just rejoined this group.
I am using Libreoffice and I created a footnote. But Nvda is not reading it. Am I missing something or should I make some special configuration?
Cheers,
Jorge







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 

SV: [nvda] Acapela for NVDA v1.4 released: TTS voice update, new scottish voice and more

mattias
 

This is exactly what I meen

Acapela need to think about all customers

So acapela don’t only say we should think..

Take action..

How hard should it be?

SO TAKE ACTION

Från: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] För Bernd Dorer
Skickat: den 3 december 2016 12:31
Till: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Ämne: Re: [nvda] Acapela for NVDA v1.4 released: TTS voice update, new scottish voice and more

 

Hi Paolo,
as I noted before, in Germany there are several persons who are interested in Acapela for NVDA, but haven't the money to purchase Infovox 4. Please include more languages such as German.

Thanks
Bernd

Am 01.12.2016 um 09:22 schrieb Paolo Leva:

Hello David,

Currently we propose Acapela TTS for NVDA to regions where we have little or no distribution of our infovox4 product.

infovox4 includes NVDA but also provides access to the TTS voices via SAPI.

http://www.acapela-group.com/infovox/

Cheers,

Paolo

 

Re: Announcement of Copy and Paste Functions

Albert Ruel
 

Thanks Dejan. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dejan Ristic
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:56 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Announcement of Copy and Paste Functions

 

Here it is:

 

http://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/clipContentsDesigner.en.html

 

On 12/6/2016 6:20 PM, Jeffrey Shockley wrote:

Hello,

NVDA cannot do this natively in most apps.

However, there is an add-on called something similar to “Fake Clipboard Announcement” that will do this all the time like what you are used to. It’s on the NVDA Addons site if I remember right.

Hope this helps,

Jeffrey

On Dec 6, 2016, at 12:10 PM, Albert Ruel <albertruel@...> wrote:

 

How do I get NVDA to announce that I have Copied and/or Pasted text when I hold down the Control Key and press the corresponding letters C or V?  

 

***

 

Albert A. Ruel

From an Island in the Pacific

 

Cell: 250-240-2343

 

“If you think you can or if you think you can’t, you’re right.”

Henry Ford

 

 



Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Windows XP stopped being supported 2 years ago. Why do you still want to stay with it?

On 12/6/2016 4:53 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
i realy wish and request that dont stop supporting of xp.

On 12/6/16, Joseph Lee <@joslee> wrote:
Hi,
Er, ordered a hamburger but got a chicken sandwich instead...
Support for Windows XP depends on a number of things, the most important
being compiler support (NVDA isn't powered entirely by Python; there are a
couple components that are compiled by Visual Studio compiler, and
thankfully, the one NV Access uses supports compiling NVDA to run on XP).
There will indeed come a time when NVDA will drop support for XP, and this
list will be one of the firsts to know when this happens well in advance of
end of support date. Same fate is awaiting Windows Vista in 2017 - Windows
Vista will be supported for a while though.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of nasrin
khaksar
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my current
programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines when
installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and via
vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not accessible even
with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4 so, its a regression
in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856 but as i said i tried different versions and
could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's great info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if
it is at all possible, but just occasionally this might not be
possible as the windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots are very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on,
say windows 10 and you will find lots of things that no longer
work due to the security of that operating system not allowing
access to parts of windows from a portable app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work on xp with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp
with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the
amd chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel processors at version 15, though they do warn that this
could change as its officially not supported. AMD chips last
working version of Dropbox is 13, and one has to disable updates
by nefarious means to keep it working on such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but his month no xp security updates came down. whether this means
they have blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot
say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe, but seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what you are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express
that works in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is
that its preview pane has to be turned off or it will fall over
sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:- briang1@...,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year
ago - where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP
for businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for
the validity of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked
it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update your security software, you might still be able to use it
offline for a long time yet. And if you only update the database
of your security software, that software will keep rolling under
XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of us who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer
flavor of Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose
a security risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows.
That is, my XP machine is not going online, but I still need a
screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS, whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA
apparently continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave
many of us the chance to continue using our older equipment, for
tasks that totally well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of
the OS, and basically there might not be too much more holes in
XP, than in any newer flavors of Windows. According to what I
read, both Win8 and 10, seem to have open holes. Some even are
well known, but for whatever reason are not being cared for. And
many times, the biggest holes are not in your OS itself, but more
in the communication between you and the Internet. Such net
related holes, might be independent on which OS you are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now
and any computer with it will have malware and be crappy to
because microsoft says so and I really don't aggree with
microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history,
soon 7 will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well, although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question
re Potplayer, it was using Windows 7 - although there are
multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same one Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around the main screen to read the information which is
displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and
there are keystrokes for most things, once you know what they
are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when I finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything
seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3 on the Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried
with 2016.4rc1 and again, I couldn't reproduce the crash, even
after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I
highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because
it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few
things that high-end screen readers cannot do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA,
and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I
do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though
far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help
you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is
accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the
screen reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the
usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what you expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can
access to all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when
anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the
problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours
on a given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between
two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been
fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything, but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life
is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages al-islam.org






NVDA repeating itself

Don H
 

Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop. When I close the laptop I normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go to sleep then shut the lid. When I open the laptop later thus returning from sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus over and over. Is this expected behavior?
As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed by NVDA.

Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

Ben J. Bloomgren
 

To decouple something means to remove the pairing of it between ANB. It's a bit difficult to explain, but I do know what he is saying.

On Dec 6, 2016, at 13:06, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...> wrote:

I've never heard of the term decoupling. Can you explain what you mean by that? Keeping in mind that you're speaking to someone who knows nothing about programming short of maybe some really really really, and I do mean really! simple stuff back in the early 90's from QBasic.
 
Chris.
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Hi,

A much better way would be to decouple this command from remote add-on somehow (right now, according to the source code of this add-on, this is hard-coded due to technical reasons).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

Re: NVDA and Open Office

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

What're the differences in the two?

Chris.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Kingett" <@blindjourno>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Open Office


It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in every other way.

Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


I've never heard of the term decoupling. Can you explain what you mean by that? Keeping in mind that you're speaking to someone who knows nothing about programming short of maybe some really really really, and I do mean really! simple stuff back in the early 90's from QBasic.
 
Chris.
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Hi,

A much better way would be to decouple this command from remote add-on somehow (right now, according to the source code of this add-on, this is hard-coded due to technical reasons).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Mullins
Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2016 4:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.
 
I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.