Date   

Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

 

i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start page in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item. You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address with
the control + space bar method and then press the following keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users. If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control + R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list. For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: NVDA repeating itself

 

gene,
i use my laptop only at home and i dont work in business to use
supported windows for business!
whats the best version of windows for home users?

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I'll add that embedded XP is a different version of XP, intended for use in
running business equipment of various kinds. The list members were correct.
Support for XP, the version of XP you are using, ended in 2014. That's
what you said ended in 2019 and that's what list members responded to. If
you had said embedded XP, you might have gotten different responses. Or you
might have gotten some of the same responses and questions about what you
meant by embedded XP. Most people don't think about embedded XP and a lot
of people don't know about it.

I'm not making any judgment about whether using updates for Embedded Windows
in another version of Windows XP will provide effective protection nor am I
assuming that doing so will possibly impair the operation of Windows. But I
am pointing out that using these updates may not provide adequate protection
and that doing so may impair the operation of Windows XP.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 4:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself


The version of NVDA you are using now is the final release version unless
some significant problem is found. The answer, therefore, whatever happens
in future, is very likely no.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 3:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself


when is the time for final nvda 2016.4?
i realy wish to see it very soon and am very excited from some of its
features!
can i use potplayer in this release without any problem?

On 12/7/16, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net> wrote:
Started with RC1

On 12/6/2016 4:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
That could be why mine is working differently. I take it NVDA didn't
keep repeating the current icon before 2016.4rc1?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>> wrote:

I don't require a password to open windows. So when returning from
sleep I am placed on the desktop.

On 12/6/2016 4:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Are you using the lock screen / logging in to your account?

On mine when I just tried exactly what you did (alt+f4 from the
desktop,
choose sleep, let it go to sleep, close the lid, open the lid),
it comes
up to the lock screen - although it didn't always announce
anything.
When I logged in, it announced "pane" twice but that was all.
So I got
a couple of little gremlins, but different ones to you.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net <mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>>>
wrote:

Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop. When I close the
laptop
I
normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go
to sleep
then shut the lid. When I open the laptop later thus
returning from
sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus
over and
over. Is this expected behavior?
As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed by
NVDA.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
<tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <tel:%2B61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: how to use mozilla thunderbird with nvda?

Ron Canazzi
 

Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for Thunderbird. It works just fine.

On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:
Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start page in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item. You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address with
the control + space bar method and then press the following keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users. If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control + R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list. For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.
--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"




--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


Re: NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number keys do

Quentin Christensen
 

Nasrin,

Yep, that's basically what input help does - you press NVDA+1 and from then on it will read out the keys you press and where applicable, what they do.  It doesn't actually do anything.  So, you can press delete or windows, or alt+f4 and it won't actually do anything, but it will tell you what you pressed.  It's good for both finding your way around a new keyboard layout, and also for practising keyboard commands that you might often press the wrong keys on, and practicing NVDA commands without doing anything.

When you are finished, press NVDA+1 again to turn input help off.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:55 PM, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi.
i did not understand the subject.
i dont use imput help but now, i tried it.
for example: nvda says shift plus kama slash backslash etc

On 12/7/16, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@...> wrote:
> I disagree, this is a facility designed to give information on the key
> combinations used to invoke NVDA commands.  What is spoken identifies the
> combination of keys used for the commands not what character they yield.
> It's not a work around because it's not a fault.  It's just a sensible and
> easy way of getting to know your keyboard.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
> Sent: 6 December 2016 23:37
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number
> keys do
>
>
>
> Since it announces letters and numbers unshifted, it is reasonable that it
> announce the shifted items as well.  Of course, you can do what you are
> saying, but it is more convenient and better design if input help can
> announce shifted items.  Your method is a work around.
>
>
>
> Gene
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Chris Mullins <mailto:cjmullins29@...>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 4:33 PM
>
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
>
> Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number
> keys do
>
>
>
> I thought input help was designed to give instructions on NVDA commands
> rather than keyboard layout.  For keyboard layout type investigations, open
> a text file and switch on speak typed characters, NVDA+2.
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
> Sent: 6 December 2016 18:25
> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
> Subject: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number keys
> do
>
>
>
> I didn't realize this until now but I was playing with input help today and
> I found that NVDA doesn't announce what shifted number keys do nor what
> shifted items such as punctuation keys do.  If you hold shift and press a
> number key, you will hear something like shift plus and then the number is
> announced.  That doesn't give useful information.  What if I wanted to find
> the dollar sign.  I couldn't do so using input help.  And I couldn't know
> from input help that shift slash is the question mark.  I'd hear something
> like shift plus slash.  Why is this the case and can it be changed without
> unreasonable effort?
>
>
>
> Gene
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org 
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Useful information about managing your list subscription

Gene
 

Here are a number of commands to allow you to manage your list subscription by e-mail.  That is, you can unsubscribe, go nomail, resume delivery, etc. 
 
It would be a good idea to keep this message for reference. 
 
List starts below my signature.
 
Gene
 
Posting To This Group
To send a message to this group, send the message to:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
 
Changing Your Subscription
To join this group, send an email to:
nvda+subscribe@nvda.groups.io
 
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
nvda+unsubscribe@nvda.groups.io
 
Email Delivery Options
To receive plain digests instead of individual messages send an email to:
nvda+digest@nvda.groups.io
 
To receive full featured digests instead of individual messages send an email to:
nvda+fulldigest@nvda.groups.io
 
To receive individual messages instead of digests, send an email to:
nvda+single@nvda.groups.io
 
To stop receiving messages via email (you may still read messages on the Web), send an email to:
nvda+nomail@nvda.groups.io
 
Note that if you stop delivery, that is go no mail, to resume delivery, use the commands above for receiving individual messages or digests.  In other words, for example, if you go no mail and want to resume individual delivery, use the command nvda+single@nvda.groups.io.
 
Contacting The Group Owner
--------------------------
 
To contact the owners of this group, send an email to:
nvda+owner@nvda.groups.io


Re: NVDA repeating itself

Gene
 

I'll add that embedded XP is a different version of XP, intended for use in running business equipment of various kinds.  The list members were correct.  Support for XP, the version of XP you are using, ended in 2014.  That's what you said ended in 2019 and that's what list members responded to.  If you had said embedded XP, you might have gotten different responses.  Or you might have gotten some of the same responses and questions about what you meant by embedded XP.  Most people don't think about embedded XP and a lot of people don't know about it. 
 
I'm not making any judgment about whether using updates for Embedded Windows in another version of Windows XP will provide effective protection nor am I assuming that doing so will possibly impair the operation of Windows.  But I am pointing out that using these updates may not provide adequate protection and that doing so may impair the operation of Windows XP.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself

The version of NVDA you are using now is the final release version unless some significant problem is found.  The answer, therefore, whatever happens in future, is very likely no. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself

when is the time for final nvda 2016.4?
i realy wish to see it very soon and am very excited from some of its features!
can i use potplayer in this release without any problem?

On 12/7/16, Don H <lmddh50@...> wrote:
> Started with RC1
>
> On 12/6/2016 4:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>> That could be why mine is working differently.  I take it NVDA didn't
>> keep repeating the current icon before 2016.4rc1?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Don H <lmddh50@...
>> <mailto:lmddh50@...>> wrote:
>>
>>     I don't require a password to open windows.  So when returning from
>>     sleep I am placed on the desktop.
>>
>>     On 12/6/2016 4:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>>
>>         Are you using the lock screen / logging in to your account?
>>
>>         On mine when I just tried exactly what you did (alt+f4 from the
>>         desktop,
>>         choose sleep, let it go to sleep, close the lid, open the lid),
>>         it comes
>>         up to the lock screen - although it didn't always announce
>> anything.
>>         When I logged in, it announced "pane" twice but that was all.
>>         So I got
>>         a couple of little gremlins, but different ones to you.
>>
>>         On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Don H <lmddh50@...
>>         <mailto:lmddh50@...>
>>         <mailto:lmddh50@... <mailto:lmddh50@...>>> wrote:
>>
>>             Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop.  When I close the laptop
>> I
>>             normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go
>>         to sleep
>>             then shut the lid.  When I open the laptop later thus
>>         returning from
>>             sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus
>>         over and
>>             over.  Is this expected behavior?
>>             As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed by
>> NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         Quentin Christensen
>>         Training Material Developer
>>         Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>         available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>
>>         Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>         <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>         Direct: +61 413 904 383 <tel:%2B61%20413%20904%20383>
>>         www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
>>         <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>         Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>         <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>         Twitter: @NVAccess
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training Material Developer
>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>> available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>
>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>> Direct: +61 413 904 383
>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



Re: NVDA and Open Office

Walmir Schultz <wsautodidata@...>
 

Hi,


In my experience, both OpenOffice and LibreOffice are, to say the least, problematic with NVDA.

The most annoying behavior es when NVDA suddenly stops. If you press ALT+TAB, other open applications continue to be read by NVDA, only office is muted. I tried many things, like pressing F2 to enter and exit edit mode (in spreadsheets), but the only way to solve the problem is reinitialize NVDA.

In many spreadsheets, to make NVDA announce the cells contents after you open the file is only accomplished by first pressing F2 two times to enter and exit edit mode.

In Writer, the NVDA+SPACE don't work at all.

In more slow computers, the problems are worsened. In a very complex spreadsheet, Calc even stops responding for many minutes.
Other annoyance in Calc is the way NVDA reads the results: even if you configure the cells to 2 or 3 decimal places, the whole number is announced.
I noted also that NVDA has problems to read only the contents of each cell: it keeps reading the contents of the formula toolbar and one has to continually press arrows to move focus and force NVDA to read the contents.
As I can't afford MS Office, I am still struggling with Calc.
Unfortunately, in each new release of NVDA there are many improvements related to MS Office but none related to OpenOffice or LibreOffice.
So, if you can, use MS Office, or, if you have a lot of patience, use LibreOfice.


Em 06/12/2016 12:41, Robert Kingett escreveu:

It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in every other way.


Re: NVDA repeating itself

Gene
 

The version of NVDA you are using now is the final release version unless some significant problem is found.  The answer, therefore, whatever happens in future, is very likely no. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself

when is the time for final nvda 2016.4?
i realy wish to see it very soon and am very excited from some of its features!
can i use potplayer in this release without any problem?

On 12/7/16, Don H <lmddh50@...> wrote:
> Started with RC1
>
> On 12/6/2016 4:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>> That could be why mine is working differently.  I take it NVDA didn't
>> keep repeating the current icon before 2016.4rc1?
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Don H <lmddh50@...
>> <mailto:lmddh50@...>> wrote:
>>
>>     I don't require a password to open windows.  So when returning from
>>     sleep I am placed on the desktop.
>>
>>     On 12/6/2016 4:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
>>
>>         Are you using the lock screen / logging in to your account?
>>
>>         On mine when I just tried exactly what you did (alt+f4 from the
>>         desktop,
>>         choose sleep, let it go to sleep, close the lid, open the lid),
>>         it comes
>>         up to the lock screen - although it didn't always announce
>> anything.
>>         When I logged in, it announced "pane" twice but that was all.
>>         So I got
>>         a couple of little gremlins, but different ones to you.
>>
>>         On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Don H <lmddh50@...
>>         <mailto:lmddh50@...>
>>         <mailto:lmddh50@... <mailto:lmddh50@...>>> wrote:
>>
>>             Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop.  When I close the laptop
>> I
>>             normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go
>>         to sleep
>>             then shut the lid.  When I open the laptop later thus
>>         returning from
>>             sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus
>>         over and
>>             over.  Is this expected behavior?
>>             As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed by
>> NVDA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         Quentin Christensen
>>         Training Material Developer
>>         Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>         available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>
>>         Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>         <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>         Direct: +61 413 904 383 <tel:%2B61%20413%20904%20383>
>>         www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
>>         <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>>         Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>         <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
>>         Twitter: @NVAccess
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Quentin Christensen
>> Training Material Developer
>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>> available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>
>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>> Direct: +61 413 904 383
>> www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>
>
>
>
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



Re: NVDA repeating itself

 

when is the time for final nvda 2016.4?
i realy wish to see it very soon and am very excited from some of its features!
can i use potplayer in this release without any problem?

On 12/7/16, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net> wrote:
Started with RC1

On 12/6/2016 4:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
That could be why mine is working differently. I take it NVDA didn't
keep repeating the current icon before 2016.4rc1?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>> wrote:

I don't require a password to open windows. So when returning from
sleep I am placed on the desktop.

On 12/6/2016 4:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Are you using the lock screen / logging in to your account?

On mine when I just tried exactly what you did (alt+f4 from the
desktop,
choose sleep, let it go to sleep, close the lid, open the lid),
it comes
up to the lock screen - although it didn't always announce
anything.
When I logged in, it announced "pane" twice but that was all.
So I got
a couple of little gremlins, but different ones to you.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net <mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>>> wrote:

Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop. When I close the laptop
I
normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go
to sleep
then shut the lid. When I open the laptop later thus
returning from
sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus
over and
over. Is this expected behavior?
As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed by
NVDA.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
<tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <tel:%2B61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: NVDA and Open Office

 

hi.
on windows, openoffice only has 32bit version which supports both 32
and 64bit windows,
but libreoffice since version 5.0 has both 32 and 64 branch.
also, 32 bit works in both 32 and 64bit versions of windows.

On 12/7/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
It looks like there is only one version for windows, which would be 32-bit,
as you said - On the download page there is an option for 32 or 64 bit
versions for Linux: http://www.openoffice.org/download/

For LibreOffice, it looks like there is a 64 bit version although it's not
right up the top next to the
32 bit version, but look a bit further down the page and it's listed as
"Windows x86_64": https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:15 AM, Kevin Cussick via Groups.Io <
the.big.white.shepherd=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Am I correct in saying there is only a 32bit version of open office? you
do get a 64bit version of Lo.


On 06/12/2016 16:45, David wrote:

Well, I pretty much second your question, except from me being totally
depending on being able to use spreadsheets. Will NVDA let me operate
the equivalent to MS Excel, under either OpenOffice or LibriOffice?



David

On 12/6/2016 3:54 PM, Jorge Gonçalves wrote:

Hello,

I just got curious from your answer. I am a LibreOffice user.

What does make Open Office more accessible than LibreOffice? What are
the main accessibility differences? I am only interested in the Word
Processor.

Cheers,
Jorge

Às 14:41 de 06/12/2016, Robert Kingett escreveu:

It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more
accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in
every other way.





.





--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number keys do

 

hi.
i did not understand the subject.
i dont use imput help but now, i tried it.
for example: nvda says shift plus kama slash backslash etc

On 12/7/16, Chris Mullins <cjmullins29@gmail.com> wrote:
I disagree, this is a facility designed to give information on the key
combinations used to invoke NVDA commands. What is spoken identifies the
combination of keys used for the commands not what character they yield.
It's not a work around because it's not a fault. It's just a sensible and
easy way of getting to know your keyboard.



Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 6 December 2016 23:37
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number
keys do



Since it announces letters and numbers unshifted, it is reasonable that it
announce the shifted items as well. Of course, you can do what you are
saying, but it is more convenient and better design if input help can
announce shifted items. Your method is a work around.



Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins <mailto:cjmullins29@gmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 4:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number
keys do



I thought input help was designed to give instructions on NVDA commands
rather than keyboard layout. For keyboard layout type investigations, open
a text file and switch on speak typed characters, NVDA+2.



Cheers

Chris



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 6 December 2016 18:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA doesn't announce what shifted letter and number keys
do



I didn't realize this until now but I was playing with input help today and
I found that NVDA doesn't announce what shifted number keys do nor what
shifted items such as punctuation keys do. If you hold shift and press a
number key, you will hear something like shift plus and then the number is
announced. That doesn't give useful information. What if I wanted to find
the dollar sign. I couldn't do so using input help. And I couldn't know
from input help that shift slash is the question mark. I'd hear something
like shift plus slash. Why is this the case and can it be changed without
unreasonable effort?



Gene



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness and sympathy with me as always and
thanks extremely for your guide and great news about continuation of
support for my favorite windows!

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi david.
i tried uninstalled and reinstallation of nvda and also potplayer and
nothing has change.
and also, i wrote narrator with the correct spelling narrator!

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi travis.
i am completely agree with you.
thanks so much for your comment.

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I am very skeptical that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA will help.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


OK, sorry I don't know much other than this to try. Long as you spelled
the narrator phrase correctly, which I am sure you have double-checked,
and your Windows do not start the service.


One last resort that comes to mind, have you ever considered
reinstalling NVDA? I would think thare might be a way to back up all
your NVDA settings, to something like a USB pen. Then completely remove
the screen reader from your system. Redownload a fresh copy, and install
NVDA all from scrach. Reboot, and perform your testing in the software
of your choice.


Something might have got broken in your installation of NVDA. And you
might have incidentially changed a setting somewhere. So if you have
never done a reinstallation, you hereby are encouraged.


Apart from that, I am out of ideas. Hope someone else will help you out.


David

On 12/6/2016 6:52 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
david,
i dont open two screen reader simultaneously.
i only installed both and when openning one, closed another and it was
not compatible for my system.
and about narrator, i am completely sure that dont have it.
i wrote it in the run and the run window became closed without any
error!

On 12/6/16, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Microsoft stopped support for windows XP in 2014 if I'm not
mistaken.




On 12/6/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
antony, do you know the last version of nvda which supports xp?
whats the last version that i can use?
i realy wish that its be possible supporting of xp forever.

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:
Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this
way,
if
you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into
Windows
XP
and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so
it's
relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP
mode
is
not
available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7
Ultimate.
From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software
stopped
supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but
eventually
old
versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla
stopped
supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows
2000
became unsupported by Microsoft.






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

hi david.
i tried uninstalled and reinstallation of nvda and also potplayer and
nothing has change.
and also, i wrote narrator with the correct spelling narrator!

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:
hi travis.
i am completely agree with you.
thanks so much for your comment.

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I am very skeptical that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA will help.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


OK, sorry I don't know much other than this to try. Long as you spelled
the narrator phrase correctly, which I am sure you have double-checked,
and your Windows do not start the service.


One last resort that comes to mind, have you ever considered
reinstalling NVDA? I would think thare might be a way to back up all
your NVDA settings, to something like a USB pen. Then completely remove
the screen reader from your system. Redownload a fresh copy, and install
NVDA all from scrach. Reboot, and perform your testing in the software
of your choice.


Something might have got broken in your installation of NVDA. And you
might have incidentially changed a setting somewhere. So if you have
never done a reinstallation, you hereby are encouraged.


Apart from that, I am out of ideas. Hope someone else will help you out.


David

On 12/6/2016 6:52 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
david,
i dont open two screen reader simultaneously.
i only installed both and when openning one, closed another and it was
not compatible for my system.
and about narrator, i am completely sure that dont have it.
i wrote it in the run and the run window became closed without any
error!

On 12/6/16, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Microsoft stopped support for windows XP in 2014 if I'm not
mistaken.




On 12/6/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
antony, do you know the last version of nvda which supports xp?
whats the last version that i can use?
i realy wish that its be possible supporting of xp forever.

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:
Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this
way,
if
you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into
Windows
XP
and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so it's
relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP mode
is
not
available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7
Ultimate.
From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software
stopped
supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but
eventually
old
versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla
stopped
supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows
2000
became unsupported by Microsoft.






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

hi travis.
i am completely agree with you.
thanks so much for your comment.

On 12/7/16, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com> wrote:
I am very skeptical that uninstalling and reinstalling NVDA will help.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: David
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


OK, sorry I don't know much other than this to try. Long as you spelled
the narrator phrase correctly, which I am sure you have double-checked,
and your Windows do not start the service.


One last resort that comes to mind, have you ever considered
reinstalling NVDA? I would think thare might be a way to back up all
your NVDA settings, to something like a USB pen. Then completely remove
the screen reader from your system. Redownload a fresh copy, and install
NVDA all from scrach. Reboot, and perform your testing in the software
of your choice.


Something might have got broken in your installation of NVDA. And you
might have incidentially changed a setting somewhere. So if you have
never done a reinstallation, you hereby are encouraged.


Apart from that, I am out of ideas. Hope someone else will help you out.


David

On 12/6/2016 6:52 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
david,
i dont open two screen reader simultaneously.
i only installed both and when openning one, closed another and it was
not compatible for my system.
and about narrator, i am completely sure that dont have it.
i wrote it in the run and the run window became closed without any error!

On 12/6/16, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Microsoft stopped support for windows XP in 2014 if I'm not
mistaken.




On 12/6/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
antony, do you know the last version of nvda which supports xp?
whats the last version that i can use?
i realy wish that its be possible supporting of xp forever.

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <supanut2000@outlook.com> wrote:
Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this
way,
if
you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into Windows
XP
and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so it's
relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP mode
is
not
available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7
Ultimate.
From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software
stopped
supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but
eventually
old
versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla
stopped
supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows 2000
became unsupported by Microsoft.





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

hi travis.
thanks for your good news.
i did read this news and mentioned in this group, but they told that
dont trust them and only do accept the news from microsoft and
trustworthy websites.
whats the different between embedded windows xp and standard windows
xp which i use now?

On 12/7/16, Isaac <bigikemusic@gmail.com> wrote:
besides, jaws, windoweyes, and any apps that need dotnet 4.5 or higher are
not supported among the latest java release, and so much more. Trust me, I
just tried a week a go, to make a complete install with and with out the
hack, applying the updates manually, but it isn't worth it. But, if your a
die-hard fan, you can still use firefox and outlook express.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


Microsoft says that the updates are not intended for the standard version
of XP. Call it a hack or something else, you are using an unsupported means
to get unsupported updates that are intended for a different version of XP
than is used on standard computers. I'm not taking a position on whether
the patches work or work properly. I'm simply saying that if you do this,
you hope but you don't know.

Gene
----- Original Message -----


From: Travis Siegel
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to
the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported?
#NVDARelease


The simple hack is to make your regular xp machine look like an embeded xp
install. It has nothing to do with xp as a whole. Microsoft is still
supporting the embeded version of xp until 2019. That isn't a hack, that's
the truth, and denying it won't change anything.

Xp embeded version is being supported until 2019. It's not the version of
xp folks run on their computers, but it's close enough that you can
piggyback on that support to keep your xp machine patched until then.

No, it's not a direct support by microsoft (for the desktop version) and
microsoft has said they don't recommend folks do this, but they've also
comitted to supporting the embeded market until 2019, and that means
(contrary to popular belief) that microsoft does support xp still, albeit a
specific version of xp, but nonetheless, they do still support xp.






On 12/6/2016 9:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Uh, anything that requires a so-called "simple hack" is not officially
supported, period.

Microsoft has declared XP support over and it's incredibly foolish to
doubt their commitment to leaving it behind.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If
you’re alive, it isn’t.

~ Lauren Bacall










------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org


Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

Gene
 

I don't have the first messages any longer.  I may be wrong but I don't recall any detailed explanation such as was given in the last message.  If there was such an explanation, I'm sorry. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Gene,

No hard feelings, but Chris G did explain that very adequately before. In fact, I was the guy who system he was working with. Had he tried, he could not have made it any more simple than he did. I don't know how many times it's needed, or what you're looking for. Is a SilverPlatter required?

Again, I say this with all due respect and in good humor, but it's actually a pretty simple problem. How, by the way, is that band in a box addon going? Oh鈥 Wait鈥 never mind that comment.

As much as I love this list, I refuse to respond to this thread any further, on or off list. I trust that no one will attack Chris Mullins, Chris Gilland or me regarding this. I cannot stress this enough, but in black and white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.

Cheers,

Ben

On Dec 6, 2016, at 22:16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.
 
I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.
 
I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.
 
For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!
 
Here is where the problem is coming in though.
 
On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.
 
When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.
 
If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.
 
So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.
 
So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.
 
There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.
 
So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.
 
I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.
 
What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.
 
In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.
 
I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.
 
If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.
 
Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.
 
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said 鈥hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer鈥 then  鈥淗e can hit F11 and obviously it works鈥.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are 鈥榮ending keys鈥, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn鈥檛 work because if you are sending keys, it鈥檚 executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.


Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Ben worte:
 
I cannot stress this enough, but in black and white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.

Couldn't a said it better. I echo the above words 1 million trillion percent. No hard feelings, but Gosh, dang!
 
Ben's right. I did! explain this from the beginning. Joseph Lee even said there was a reason that my problem was occuring. Please go read the list archive.
 
Chris.
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Gene,

No hard feelings, but Chris G did explain that very adequately before. In fact, I was the guy who system he was working with. Had he tried, he could not have made it any more simple than he did. I don't know how many times it's needed, or what you're looking for. Is a SilverPlatter required?

Again, I say this with all due respect and in good humor, but it's actually a pretty simple problem. How, by the way, is that band in a box addon going? Oh鈥� Wait鈥� never mind that comment.

As much as I love this list, I refuse to respond to this thread any further, on or off list. I trust that no one will attack Chris Mullins, Chris Gilland or me regarding this. I cannot stress this enough, but in black and white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.

Cheers,

Ben

On Dec 6, 2016, at 22:16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.
 
I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.
 
I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.
 
For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!
 
Here is where the problem is coming in though.
 
On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.
 
When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.
 
If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.
 
So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.
 
So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.
 
There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.
 
So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.
 
I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.
 
What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.
 
In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.
 
I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.
 
If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.
 
Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.
 
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said 鈥�hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer鈥� then  鈥淗e can hit F11 and obviously it works鈥�.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are 鈥榮ending keys鈥�, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn鈥檛 work because if you are sending keys, it鈥檚 executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Gene,

One of us is confused.

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

Chris.


Re: Google Chrome Browser

 

Chuck it at me to, better still post it somewhere so we can all read it.

On 7/12/2016 4:14 a.m., Michael wrote:
I too would be interested in a copy.





_____

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea
Sherry
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Google Chrome Browser



That would be good if you could pass that along in whichever format is
convenient.

Cheers

Andrea



On 6/12/2016 11:45 PM, Chris Mullins wrote:

Hi Andrea

I have a Word document I wrote several months ago which explains how to set
Chrome up to your personal preferences which I can send in Word or text form
if it's any good to you.



Cheers

Chris



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andrea
Sherry
Sent: 6 December 2016 06:35
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Google Chrome Browser



Need a beginners' guide for the browser please.

Where can I obtain such?

Andrea





Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 


besides, jaws, windoweyes, and any apps that need dotnet 4.5 or higher are not supported among the latest java release, and so much more.  Trust me, I just tried a week a go, to make a complete install with and with out the hack, applying the updates manually, but it isn't worth it.  But, if your a die-hard fan, you can still use firefox and outlook express.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Microsoft says that the updates are not intended for the standard version of XP.  Call it a hack or something else, you are using an unsupported means to get unsupported updates that are intended for a different version of XP than is used on standard computers.  I'm not taking a position on whether the patches work or work properly.  I'm simply saying that if you do this, you hope but you don't know. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: Windows XP support was: RE: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

The simple hack is to make your regular xp machine look like an embeded xp install.  It has nothing to do with xp as a whole.  Microsoft is still supporting the embeded version of xp until 2019.  That isn't a hack, that's the truth, and denying it won't change anything.

Xp embeded version is being supported until 2019. It's not the version of xp folks run on their computers, but it's close enough that you can piggyback on that support to keep your xp machine patched until then.

No, it's not a direct support by microsoft (for the desktop version) and microsoft has said they don't recommend folks do this, but they've also comitted to supporting the embeded market until 2019, and that means (contrary to popular belief) that microsoft does support xp still, albeit a specific version of xp, but nonetheless, they do still support xp.



On 12/6/2016 9:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Uh, anything that requires a so-called "simple hack" is not officially supported, period.

Microsoft has declared XP support over and it's incredibly foolish to doubt their commitment to leaving it behind.
--
Brian

Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If you’re alive, it isn’t.

    ~ Lauren Bacall

    






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Re: Potential problem with the Remote addon

Ben J. Bloomgren
 

Gene,

No hard feelings, but Chris G did explain that very adequately before. In fact, I was the guy who system he was working with. Had he tried, he could not have made it any more simple than he did. I don't know how many times it's needed, or what you're looking for. Is a SilverPlatter required?

Again, I say this with all due respect and in good humor, but it's actually a pretty simple problem. How, by the way, is that band in a box addon going? Oh… Wait… never mind that comment.

As much as I love this list, I refuse to respond to this thread any further, on or off list. I trust that no one will attack Chris Mullins, Chris Gilland or me regarding this. I cannot stress this enough, but in black and white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.

Cheers,

Ben

On Dec 6, 2016, at 22:16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.
 
I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.
 
I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.
 
For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!
 
Here is where the problem is coming in though.
 
On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.
 
When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.
 
If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.
 
So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.
 
So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.
 
There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.
 
So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.
 
I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.
 
What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.
 
In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.
 
I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.
 
If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.
 
Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.
 
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said “hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer” then  “He can hit F11 and obviously it works”.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are ‘sending keys’, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.