gene, thanks extremely for your help!
how can i set thunderbird not to download all emails automaticly?
and whats the setting in it by default? POP3 or emap?

On 12/7/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks extremely for your help.
is this problem for all thunderbird versions and how to prevent it?
is there any setting to use thunderbird like my gmail in firefox
without losing my internet charge automaticly?

On 12/7/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Nasrin,


If you are so limited by your ISP regulation on bandwidth, then I
suggest you not use any pop3 or IMAP program like Thunderbird or
Outlook. Keep using Firefox or the browser of your choice to view your
e-mail.


I hope bandwidth limitations never get that tight in the US, but with
the incoming administration and the almost certainty that 'net
neutrality' will end, who knows.


I really like my personal client and pop3/IMAP approach.



On 12/7/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start
page
in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will
go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item.
You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the
file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use
the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome
when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in
the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want
to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address
with
the control + space bar method and then press the following
keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time
you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have
completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless
someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly
from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking
and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field
to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field
and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two
messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it
does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find
settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one
of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have
different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the
message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users.
If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press
of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This
feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen
readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with
no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they
won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded
so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices
for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address
and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control +
R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no
open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press
control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where
you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or
you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send
the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do
this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list.
For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is
that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from
signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings
and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from
the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any
success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial
in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

thanks extremely for your help.
is this problem for all thunderbird versions and how to prevent it?
is there any setting to use thunderbird like my gmail in firefox
without losing my internet charge automaticly?

On 12/7/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Nasrin,


If you are so limited by your ISP regulation on bandwidth, then I
suggest you not use any pop3 or IMAP program like Thunderbird or
Outlook. Keep using Firefox or the browser of your choice to view your
e-mail.


I hope bandwidth limitations never get that tight in the US, but with
the incoming administration and the almost certainty that 'net
neutrality' will end, who knows.


I really like my personal client and pop3/IMAP approach.



On 12/7/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start page
in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will
go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item.
You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use
the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want
to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address with
the control + space bar method and then press the following
keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time
you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have
completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless
someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly
from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking
and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field
to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two
messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it
does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one
of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have
different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users.
If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press
of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This
feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen
readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they
won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded
so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices
for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control +
R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press
control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or
you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do
this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list.
For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is
that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from
signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from
the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any
success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Hello,

I can't speak for Open office or the calc spreadsheet in Libre office,
but to get over the problem of documents in writer becoming uneditable
you can press the F6 function key followed by escape, pressing Alt tab
a few times wil bring you back to an editable document as well.



Best Regards, Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: Walmir Schultz via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Open Office

Hi,


In my experience, both OpenOffice and LibreOffice are, to say the least,
problematic with NVDA.

The most annoying behavior es when NVDA suddenly stops. If you press
ALT+TAB, other open applications continue to be read by NVDA, only
office is muted. I tried many things, like pressing F2 to enter and exit
edit mode (in spreadsheets), but the only way to solve the problem is
reinitialize NVDA.

In many spreadsheets, to make NVDA announce the cells contents after
you open the file is only accomplished by first pressing F2 two times to
enter and exit edit mode.

In Writer, the NVDA+SPACE don't work at all.

In more slow computers, the problems are worsened. In a very complex
spreadsheet, Calc even stops responding for many minutes.
Other annoyance in Calc is the way NVDA reads the results: even if you
configure the cells to 2 or 3 decimal places, the whole number is
announced.
I noted also that NVDA has problems to read only the contents of each
cell: it keeps reading the contents of the formula toolbar and one has
to continually press arrows to move focus and force NVDA to read the
contents.
As I can't afford MS Office, I am still struggling with Calc.
Unfortunately, in each new release of NVDA there are many improvements
related to MS Office but none related to OpenOffice or LibreOffice.
So, if you can, use MS Office, or, if you have a lot of patience, use
LibreOfice.


Em 06/12/2016 12:41, Robert Kingett escreveu:

It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more
accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in
every other way.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn’t work because if you are sending keys, it’s executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 1:00 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

I don't have the first messages any longer.  I may be wrong but I don't recall any detailed explanation such as was given in the last message.  If there was such an explanation, I'm sorry. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Ben J. Bloomgren

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:38 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Gene,

No hard feelings, but Chris G did explain that very adequately before. In fact, I was the guy who system he was working with. Had he tried, he could not have made it any more simple than he did. I don't know how many times it's needed, or what you're looking for. Is a SilverPlatter required?

Again, I say this with all due respect and in good humor, but it's actually a pretty simple problem. How, by the way, is that band in a box addon going? Oh鈥 Wait鈥 never mind that comment.

As much as I love this list, I refuse to respond to this thread any further, on or off list. I trust that no one will attack Chris Mullins, Chris Gilland or me regarding this. I cannot stress this enough, but in black and white, there are neither hard feelings no disrespect toward anyone. If anyone detects condescension in this at all, that is not my intent.

Cheers,

Ben

On Dec 6, 2016, at 22:16, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

If you had explained this at the beginning, it would have saved a lot of confusion.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 9:35 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

Shruggs, never mind. I'm tired of trying to explain this. It's not your fault. NO hard feelings. I just don't  know how simpiler to put this.

 

I am the controller. He is the controlee. He can hit F11 on his end. I however cannot as F11 toggles between me sending keys and not sending keys.

 

I get that with him being the controlee, he could hit F11 to his heart's content, and it wouldn't toggle between keystrokes being sent to him or not.

 

For him, if he hits F11, it would then simply perform the regular function of F11. If I hit it, it'll toggle. I get that. OK? Make that totally clear. I get it!

 

Here is where the problem is coming in though.

 

On his computer, the computer I am controlling, he's running a program which requires pressing of the F11 key to open a certain dialog within the program.

 

When focus is in that particular program, if he, not I, but he! hits F11, the dialog comes up no problem.

 

If I! hit F11 though, it toggles between sending keys and not sending keys.

 

So, if I am on his computer, and I'm sending keys to his system, I go to the start window, I navigate and open up that program, OK, you following me? I open up that program, on his? end, not on mine, the program launches and is in the foreground. I then press F11 to bring up that dialog. I instead hear not sending keys. The reason is because F11 on the controller's computer toggles  between the two machines. sending, and not sending, keystrokes.

 

So... he can hit F11, but if I'm carrying out a task helping him, I don't always want to have to say, hey Joe Blow, hit your F11 key, I can't hittit for you.

 

There needs to be a way to tell the Remote addon when on either! the remote controller's end or the controlee's end, either! it doesn't matter if you're sending keys or not. That's totally irrelavent. The point is, regardless, there needs to be an equal way that the controller also have full functionality of the keyboard. The controller needs a way to be able to send an F11 key to the controlee's machine. It  shouldn't always be up to the controlee to have to hit F11. Either person should have a way to be able to do it.

 

So, my logic of thinking was, OK, the Remote addon is obviously seeing when I hit F11 that I'm trying to switch between sending and not sending keystrokes. I don't want NVDA interpreting that and sending the F11 key through to the Remote addon, thereby toggling key sending on/off. I want to be sending key commands to the controlee's system. While doing so, I want to be able to press NVDA F2, pass a key through, this way, NVDA doesn't give two damns less about that F11 key. For all NVDA cares, I never pressed it to start with.

 

I need that NVDA+F2 to bypass the F11 key so that when I hit F11 while sending keys, the Remote addon doesn't detect the keystroke and toggle me back to my machine, but instead sends the F11 key to the controlee's system as a regular keyboard shortcut, thereby within the program in question activating sed dialog as a result of the F11 key being the command coded into this application to activate that screen.

 

What I was apparently trying to say in a not so good way, or so it seems, is that when I press the NVDA+F2 to pass the next keystroke through to the OS, bypassing NVDA and all addons accordingly, as soon as I do this and hear pass key through, if I then hit F11, the key isn't getting passed; it's still sending the F11 key through being interpreted by NVDA, thereby toggling me back to not sending key commands, same as if I'd just hit F11 without first passing the key through.

 

In practice, I'd think that if I pass a key through, then the next press of F11 should be sent to which ever machine I'm presently controlling, that is not what I'm observing though.

 

I really! really! really really really! really! can't make it any more childplay elementary comprehensible than this. I've spelled in black and white precisely down to a T what the problem is. I don't possess any skill of knowledge to make this easier put.

 

If this makes sense, then great, but if not, then I'm out of symantic ways to explain it.

 

Again, no hard feelings, but this really shouldn't be this hard to grasp.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:00 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

You said 鈥hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer鈥 then  鈥淗e can hit F11 and obviously it works鈥.  I took this to mean you pressed NVDA+f2 to try and bypass the sendkey operation of f11 and send it to the remote computer.  If, when the guy on the remote computer presses f11 it works OK, why would you need to run an NVDA bypass command on that computer?

 

When a remote connection is made, the keyboard of the controlled computer works as normal, so f11 is f11.  On the keyboard of the controlling computer however, the f11 key acts as a sendkey toggle, so even if you are 鈥榮ending keys鈥, the f11 keypress is never transmitted to the remote computer.  I suggested a double/triple keypress event as a sendkey toggle as this is more unlikely to be required by an app you are interacting with on a remote computer.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 20:04
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

But I want the bipass command and the F11 to be executed at the remote end.

 

I'm not sure how much more simple to put this.

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris Mullins

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:29 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Hi

There has to be a key or key combination which the controlling NVDA uses to switch the key send feature, in this case it happens to be f11.  Using the bypass command doesn鈥檛 work because if you are sending keys, it鈥檚 executing at the remote end.  Perhaps the remote add-on could be tweaked to use a double or triple  tap of F11 to switch the key sending mode on and off, with a single keypress being treated as any other key.

 

Cheers

Chris

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher-Mark Gilland
Sent: 6 December 2016 00:00
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yeah, I sent it to the list earlier, but, who knows... LOL! It's all good.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:32 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Yes, that makes sense.  I don't recall your original message but it makes sense now. 

 

Gene

------ Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:48 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

Gene,

 

One of us is confused.

 

Yes it does make sense you'd issue the bypass command. This friend of mine has an app that he uses which uncommonly has F11 mapped as one of the keystrokes to perform a task within that application.  So, regardless if NVDA is in the equasion or not, even if a sighted person was using this same application, F11 would be the command one would need to hit to execute this function. The problem is, F11 is also assigned to the NVDA remote addon to toggle between sending or not sending keys.

 

If I am trying to help him with something in this program, and we get to the point where F11 is required, yeah, I can make him hit the key for me, but that's really a poor way of doing things. I should be able in one form a or another to have the same level of control as him, not 99.9999%. If I am sending keys, and am focused in that application on his system, then try hitting F11, it stops sending keys. Why? Because F11 is ultimately set to be interceptid by the Remote Addon, so therefore that  takes

 precedents over the application in question therefore causing a key conflict. This is why I need the Remote addon to ignore me hitting F11. This way the application sees it, not the remote addon. That's why I was trying to first do a pass key through.

 

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not sure how more elementary to explain it. Maybe someone else can.

 

Chris.

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

It doesn't make sense that you would use the bypass key before issuing the f11 command.  This is clearly an NVDA add on command and you would want it to go to NVDA so the add on will intercept it and take an action. 

 

Whatever the problem is, the bypass key won't solve it, as you found.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Christopher-Mark Gilland

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 4:32 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: [nvda] Potential problem with the Remote addon

 

So, a friend and I were both playing with the NVDA Remote addon. I was controlling his computer.

 

The Addon worked flawlessly with one exception:  For whatever reason, you know how F11 is used for sending/not sending keys? I know earlier I talked about needing the keystroke to pass a key through, which was told to me to be NVDA+F2. Thank you for that information, by the way. The problem is, even after doing this, hearing NVDA say pass key through, then hitting F11, I can't send an F11 key to his computer, no matter what!

 

He! can hit F11 and obviously it works, but shouldn't the controller also be able to do this?

 

This one's got me a bit baffled. Further, in the Tools menu of NVDA under Remote, I tried sending a CTRL+Alt+Del, and that neither is working. It just acts like I did nothing at all.

 

Does anyone know how to get both these issues resolved short of contacting Christopher Toth, who usually never seems to respond back to me cvia e-mail nor via Twitter, not sure why not?

 

Chris.

Hi Nasrin,


If you are so limited by your ISP regulation on bandwidth, then I
suggest you not use any pop3 or IMAP program like Thunderbird or
Outlook. Keep using Firefox or the browser of your choice to view your
e-mail.


I hope bandwidth limitations never get that tight in the US, but with
the incoming administration and the almost certainty that 'net
neutrality' will end, who knows.


I really like my personal client and pop3/IMAP approach.



On 12/7/2016 7:01 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start page
in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item.
You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use
the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want
to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address with
the control + space bar method and then press the following keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time
you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have
completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless
someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly
from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking
and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field
to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two
messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it
does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users.
If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press
of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This
feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen
readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded
so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control + R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do
this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list.
For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is
that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from
signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more
accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in
every other way.

i dont know the problem.
when i wanted to use my email with thunderbird, i think some option is
check by default.
unfortunately all my emails downloaded to my computer automaticly and
for the limitation of internet charge hear, i waisted around one gb of
my internet charge!
i only wanted to work with it to learn it, but downloading all emails
automaticly is very terrible!

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start page in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item. You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address with
the control + space bar method and then press the following keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users. If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control + R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list. For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Also, I forgot, I am using NVDA latest version 2016.3 for Thunderbird.
It works just fine.



On 12/4/2016 7:08 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my
thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start page in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item. You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address with
the control + space bar method and then press the following keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users. If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control + R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list. For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

I'll add that embedded XP is a different version of XP, intended for use in
running business equipment of various kinds. The list members were correct.
Support for XP, the version of XP you are using, ended in 2014. That's
what you said ended in 2019 and that's what list members responded to. If
you had said embedded XP, you might have gotten different responses. Or you
might have gotten some of the same responses and questions about what you
meant by embedded XP. Most people don't think about embedded XP and a lot
of people don't know about it.

I'm not making any judgment about whether using updates for Embedded Windows
in another version of Windows XP will provide effective protection nor am I
assuming that doing so will possibly impair the operation of Windows. But I
am pointing out that using these updates may not provide adequate protection
and that doing so may impair the operation of Windows XP.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 4:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself


The version of NVDA you are using now is the final release version unless
some significant problem is found. The answer, therefore, whatever happens
in future, is very likely no.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: nasrin khaksar
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 3:03 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA repeating itself


when is the time for final nvda 2016.4?
i realy wish to see it very soon and am very excited from some of its
features!
can i use potplayer in this release without any problem?

On 12/7/16, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net> wrote:

Started with RC1

On 12/6/2016 4:48 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

That could be why mine is working differently. I take it NVDA didn't
keep repeating the current icon before 2016.4rc1?

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>> wrote:

I don't require a password to open windows. So when returning from
sleep I am placed on the desktop.

On 12/6/2016 4:10 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Are you using the lock screen / logging in to your account?

On mine when I just tried exactly what you did (alt+f4 from the
desktop,
choose sleep, let it go to sleep, close the lid, open the lid),
it comes
up to the lock screen - although it didn't always announce
anything.
When I logged in, it announced "pane" twice but that was all.
So I got
a couple of little gremlins, but different ones to you.

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Don H <lmddh50@comcast.net
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>
<mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net <mailto:lmddh50@comcast.net>>>
wrote:

Running NVDA RC1 on a Win 10 laptop. When I close the
laptop
I
normally first hit Alt F4 and then select sleep, let it go
to sleep
then shut the lid. When I open the laptop later thus
returning from
sleep NVDA keeps repeating the name of the Icon in focus
over and
over. Is this expected behavior?
As I have already said as a newbee I am quite impressed by
NVDA.






--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
<tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <tel:%2B61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org>
<http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <tel:%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

hi,
thanks extremely for your detailed and great information!
i should practice them to learn them!
when i opened one message, my firefox opened it instead of my thunderbird!
how to open them with thunderbird and set it to be easy as firefox?
i tried desabling the preference under general and unfortunately
thunderbird stors all tabs and messages which i opened previously.
besides, whats the best version in simplicity and accessibility easy
to use with nvda?
whats the best versions in this regard?
is there any advance settings that i should change like advance
settings in firefox about:config
God bless you and his infinite mercy i pray for you.

On 12/4/16, Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@roadrunner.com> wrote:

Hi Again,


I forgot a few important items.


You may be having confusion because of the start page issue. Under
tools/options/general, uncheck the box that says 'show the start page in
the message area.' This way, when you launch Thunderbird, you will go
directly to your list of folder/messages.


If you receive a message with an attachment, with the message open,
press alt + M for the message item and H for the attachments item. You
will then see a bunch of choices including open (the name of the file
attachment) open all, save all and so on.


You can also use tab and shift tab to get to the attachments and use the
right click (context menu) item, but this is a bit cumbersome, so i
prefer the former method.


Also, I find the following to work well--though a bit cumbersome when
trying to place addresses in various of the CC/BCC/To fields.


If you open a new message and back tab 8 times, you are placed in the
list of addresses in your default or main address book. If you want to
do a mass mailing, thenyou can arrow down or use first letter
navigation (which works for the address book, and select address with
the control + space bar method and then press the following keystrokes
to place large numbers of addresses into the various fields.


alt + A for To field

alt + C for CC field

alt + B for BCC field.


If you wish to place various addresses in multiple field, each time you
place them there, you will have to back tab again until you hear
'contacts, tree view.' This will place you back into the list of
addresses to continue choosing separate fields until you have completed
your list of mass addresses. It is a bit cumbersome, but unless someone
else has figured out a better way, it is better than going directly from
the address book and then moving around the list and right clicking and
tghen choosing write and then moving the addresses around from field to
field to that you have some in the to field, some in the cc field and
some in the bcc field.


I hope this meandering list of commands over the course of two messages
helps someone some way.





On 12/4/2016 6:10 AM, Ron Canazzi wrote:

Hello:


Thunderbird is pretty straight forward. Once you install the
program, you must set up your account. By default, after the first
installation, this screen comes up--where you enter your e-mail
address, name, server settings and so on. If for some reason, it does
not come up after the first installation, then you can find settings
for the e-mail account under the tools menu (alt +
T) and the accounting settings (press S after alt + T) item.


Once the account settings screen comes up, tab once to the account
settings button and press space bar. A context menu opens and one of
the choice is 'add e-mail account.' If you choose this item, a
standard mail configuration screen comes up and you fill in your
information.


Now here are a few settings that I prefer. Others may have different
opinions. I came from the Outlook Express experience in earlier
versions of Windows, so I set my view settings as follows.


Under the tool bars menu under view, I have menu bar and status bar
checked.

Under the layout sub menu item under view, I have the folder pain
checked and the classic view item checked. I do not have the message
pain checked. This causes problems with many screen reader users. If
this gets checked by accident, it toggles on and off with the press of
the function Key 8 on your keyboard.


Under the folder sub menu item under view, I have the all item
checked--nothing else.


Under the today pane, I have none checked--nothing else. This feature
is nice for sighted people, but it can cause issues for screen readers.


The sort by item is up to you. I have date and ascending order
checked which places the most recent messages at the bottom of the
list in each folder.


The thread sub menu item is also personal preference but I have all
checked and then I use the command letter N when in a folder with no
open messages to unsort to read each message separately so they won't
open all at once and the letter T for setting them back to threaded so
I can do mass deletions.


Under the headers sub menu item, I have normal checked. This avoids
the full headers which take up a massive amount of space with
gibberish most people don't understand.


Under the message body as item, I have simple HTML which suffices for
most purposes.


The display attachments inline should be unchecked--otherwise files
you attach which are binary or music will create a lot of gibberish
that no one can read.


Now here are a few shortcut and hotkeys to get you started. Many of
them are similar to Outlook Express with a few notable exceptions.


To bring up the address book where you can create e-mail address and
properly send e-mail, the keystroke is control+ shift + B. From the
address book, check the various sub menus for how to create new
entries (control + N) and so on.


To start a new message from scratch without using the address book,
the keystroke is Control + N.

To reply to a message you have received the keystroke is Control + R.
If you wish to respond to everyone in the headers the keystroke is
control + shift + R.

Here's one odd one. To forward a message, press control + L. This
differs from most other Microsoft clients which use Control +

F.

Control + F is used either to find messages in a folder with no open
messages, or to find text in an open message.

To attach a file, from an open message you are writing, press control
+ shift + A. This opens a browse for folder/file dialogue where you
can move to the default folder for attachments.

Once you have completed writing a message, you can either configure
the message to be sent immediately under your account settings or you
can use the keystroke control + enter to send the message. If send
immediately is not configured, you will receive a prompt to send the
message after pressing control + enter to whcih you respond yes.


As far as navigation from folder to folder, the easiest way to do this
in my opinion is to use the Function key 6 (F6) keystroke that will
move ou from the list of messages, to the tabs to the folder list. For
example, if you are in the list of messages and you press F6, you
should go to the folder list. One important thing to remember is that
first letter navigation within the folder list is not possible for
some reason. Unlike in Outlook Express, you must use up and down
arrow keys to move from one folder to another in the tree view and
then press tab once to move to the list of messages in each folder.
That's one big drawback.


For any more settings issues, use the tools menu alt + T and choose
options. There are a bunch of settings for everything from signatures
to just how return receipts are handled. Explore these settings and
make preferred choices.


As with any new program, check under the various menus--both from the
main inbox folder and from wsithin a new message or open message to
get further tips and tricks as to how to use the program.





On 12/4/2016 2:52 AM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

hello every one.
i tried mozilla thunderbird for the second time without any success.
i could not do anything with it.
could you please send me a link which contains complete tutorial in
using thunderbird with nvda?
thanks extremely for your help and God bless you all.

--
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

It works well even if you do not have Java installed. It is more accessible than Libreoffice but Libreoffice is a better program in every other way.